1970 F-250 4x4 16V 4BTA conversion

[averagef250]

Mike, weigh the costs involved to get the setup you want and go with the engine that is the best deal for you when it's all said and done and the engine is configured the way you want it.

For the 72 and older trucks or the 73-79 non-AC trucks the dodge exhaust manifold is a real nice fit and seams to make more power than the ford/freightliner manifold. The ford style manifold also likes to crack in half under really hard use and usually doesn't make it past 300K in a heavy truck.

Learn what the main differences are in these engines and what exactly it is that you want. For example, it would be pretty stupid to buy a first gen dodge rotary pump 12 valve engine to swap into any 73 or newer Ford that has AC and you want any real power from. The dodge accessory brackets are useless for you, the dodge exhaust manifold won't fit and the rotary engines just don't do it like the inline ones do.

For the engine that's going in my 70 I'm just running a Ford alternator and power steering setup off a Ford chassis 4BT, no AC to worry about. I've ported the head, installed a 4000GSK, valve springs and haven't decided which injectors/delivery valves to go with yet. I'll be running a 3 piece aftermarket manifold and likely a single S300 turbo and a straight 4" pipe.

For my truck I didn't need the parts that come on the Ford 5.9 engines, but those parts are in very high demand and easy to sell. I mostly just like how it says FOMOCO on the engine ID plate instead of dodge.

[averagef250]

Well, been awhile since I updated this thread. Plans have changed again.

I just unnoficially traded the 97 Ford 12 valve I had for this truck for this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cummins- ... enameZWDVW

It's a fully mechanical 16 valve 4.5 liter rear geartrain 4B experimental test engine. Many of the things I own are "experimental" so this should fit very well into my truck. Still going with the ZF 5 speed, just going to be funner now because NOBODY makes adapters for the rear geartrain cummins motors for on the road transmissions.

[averagef250]

It's mine (insert evil mad scientist laugh here). The story goes only two of these buggers were ever made and the pair of them are the only two mechanical 16V engines outside of europe.

[customcrewcab]

very cool!

[RedneckTexan]

I'd definately go with the 16V 4BTA now, cuz that would make your bump truly unique! But if there are only two in the U.S. how will you get parts

[averagef250]

There are plenty of 16V 4BT's out there, but they're all common rail.

The engine I have is essentially a commonrail engine with a mechanical pump. For this it has custom injection lines, a special timing cover and custom injectors. The parts that are specific to this engine aren't parts that will ever break or wear out.

[RedneckTexan]

Gotcha!

[averagef250]

Made a little progress on this swap.

I heard a rumor that the new braizillian super duty Fords use the commonrail 4.5 4BT. I've been trying to locate the part numbers for the rear adapter and flywheel used for this setup, but Cummins brazil is it's own deal. Even if I had part numbers I'd still have a hard time getting the parts here and they will cost a fortune.

What I've decided to do is use a gen2 dodge cummins flywheel cut down to fit the ring gear for this engine. Instead of redrilling and cutting down the adapter on the rear of the engine I have I'm going to make a 1/2" thick aluminum plate to bolt right to the existing bolt pattern and cut about 1/2 the bellhousing off the ZF 5 speed I have then weld the plate directly to the front of the tranny.

I've run into some other issues with this engine as well. I want to get some pretty big numbers from this engine and want to change to a P7100 injection pump. The roadblock I've hit is that the VE injection pump that's on this thing is reverse rotation from a front gear engine. I'm having a hard time finding anyone who knows whether or not I can build a reverse rotation 4 banger P7100.

[averagef250]

I'm really starting to feel like going with such an oddball engine was a poor choice.

I cannot get a practical injection pump that will work for this engine. I can dump a couple grand into the VE pump that's on it to *hopefully* get an aneroid on it and putting out enough fuel for my needs. I cannot justify making an investment like that in a pump I don't like plus I still have to make some very custom pieces to mate a transmission up. None of this sounds good to me.

I decided to dig a little deeper into the engine to see if converting the engine to front geartrain is an option. If I convert to front gear I can use a P7100 pump, standard cummins accesories and best of all I can just bolt my tranny right up with common parts. No reinventing the wheel. After removing the front and rear engine covers I can see that the the front of the crank is the same as the early engines, but the rear is very different. I'm currently investigating local machine shops to see if anyone can handle cutting off the rear of the crankshaft, shortening it to the length needed and pressing/welding the crank flange back on. I'm not a huge fan of this, but it appears the rear flange of the crankshaft is just pressed on anyway on these new commonrail engines. I will also need to drill and tap many new holes in the front of the engine block to mate up the inline pump timing cover and drill the rear of the block to accept the rear main seal adapter from a front gear engine. I'll have to modify the oil pan to bolt up to the new timing cover and rear adapter, find all the parts for front gear, the P7100 pump and make new injector lines.

Piece of cake!

[Ranchero50]

Would it possible to put in an early crank or is that too easy?

Jamie

[averagef250]

The 6.7 liter sixes and 4.5 liter fours have about a 1/2 inch longer stroke than the earlier engines. I have found 4.5 liter fours with front gear train, but they are all non-commonrail offroad engines and are the same bore as the early 5.9/3.9 with a really long stroke.

[averagef250]

Dangit! Another snag! The commonrail engines run the lift pump in a different place on the block. I want to run a piers regrind mechanical 8V 4BT cam, but it doesn't have the lobe for the lift pump in the right spot!

I do not want an electric lift pump. I may end up machining a new lift pump boss into the block in the old 2V/ISB location.