What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

[sideoilerfe]

For Reference:

33-248-4 = Comp XE272

Cam Card

That looked like a fairly decent camshaft according to the specs. Too bad it was garbage in less than 20 minutes.

[sideoilerfe]

[Ranchero50]

Sorry, I thought he was done.

Man, if you can't even take the time to tape off the block before painting with junk paint I don't see how anything else would hold up.

I guess the greatest irony is these guys do this for a living...

Robroy, you are dealing with Jerseyites, nice and calm is weak and submissive, try to remember to be direct and forceful on the phone.

I wish you luck and am actually happy that this is happening now instead of when the truck's on the highway in traffic hauling a load on a hot summers day.

So, what are the recommendations?
Jamie

[DuckRyder]

All the other issues aside (and there are quite a few of them) I personally believe the cam (lifter "B" started it) failed and all the scuffing and scratching is a result of that.

[BobbyFord]

All the other issues aside (and there are quite a few of them) I personally believe the cam (lifter "B" started it) failed and all the scuffing and scratching is a result of that.

Yup. That's why I was asking about spring rate, break-in and such. I wonder what exactly the engine shop does to break-in the engine in house? I can't see how they could be following the procedure recommended by the cam manufacturers.

[fomocoguy]

I think that if proformance unlimited has read this thread then they'll refund your money. One would think they would realize that you are honest and just trying to make things fair. After all, you have not "slammed" them once. You have given them the benefit of the doubt every time. If they can do at least one thing right, it would be to refund ALL of your money for your trouble. If they cop an attitude and refuse, then I think legal action is your next and final step.

Regarding the build, that is just sloppy and unprofessional, period.

x 100%. I don't care about the windage tray problem you had; it would have never came close to causing that sort of damage, especially the sloppy headwork. Every aspect of that engine should have been better than new for the kind of money you spent, but I know I don't have to tell you that. Not to mention the fact that the specs and details you were given were completely and totally false. I have no doubt that you will get your money back one way or another; hopefully the short easy way and not the long hard way. Unbelievable.

[fomocoguy]

All the other issues aside (and there are quite a few of them) I personally believe the cam (lifter "B" started it) failed and all the scuffing and scratching is a result of that.

After seeing the amount of cam and lifter carnage I'm sure you are right. I've heard of a lobe wiping out on break in, but what a mess this one is....

[70_F100]

I've been proven wrong about camshaft wear, and I admit it...

I have NEVER seen a cam THAT worn with less than 100.000 miles!!!

[sideoilerfe]

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Auto-Parts/ ... -7cd72.htm

[BobbyFord]

I've been proven wrong about camshaft wear, and I admit it...

I have NEVER seen a cam THAT worn with less than 100.000 miles!!!

Hey, don't feel bad. Go on 460ford.com and search posts about cam failure. I'm old-school too and we never saw stuff like what's happening nowadays. It's well documented here with Robroy's engine but it's widespread and commonplace everywhere else.

[DuckRyder]

For the block generally the 105 (or actually reverse 105) blocks are considered quite good and it is much more common for them to go to std 428 bore. I would probably use DSC's "truck block" price and subtract the cost of the sonic check and magnaflux on the open market.

http://www.dscmotorsport.com/Engine/index.htm

I agree with Bobby Ford, it looks to me as if Comps break in recommendations were not followed, Comps XE line of cams does have a pretty fast ramp and they do specify relatively strong springs for it. Breaking in that cam with the inner and outer springs in place is in my opinion akin to playing Russian roulette with 3 live rounds in the cylinder. Fast ramps on a flat tappet cam are a double edged sword, yes they do help performance but they require stronger springs so failure is more likely.

Lifter B is a mess, it looks like a wedge slid off the bottom of it in the pictures, Ive never seen one that looked that way, I think it was defective. I wonder if it is a Comp lifter? I would say all but a couple were well on their way to failing without much help form the shrapnel.

The markings on the cam, I would be willing to bet the "07208" is a date code of some sort, perhaps day 072 of 2008? day 208 of 2007? Either way, if it is one of those it is well after the Johnson lifter thing, although the lifters did not necessarily come with the cam.

Comp has two spring recommendations for that cam:

924 (Seat load 112 lbs @1.900)

930 (Seat load 153 @1.900)

930 seems a bit over the top for a flat tappet cam to me, but that may be what is on it based on Tom's measurements.

On to the cam itself.

An XE274 doesn't seem to be extremely radical, it is a decent street CAR cam, and is even pretty popular with the FE forum crowd. It is in my opinion at least a better cam than a single pattern "High Energy" of any description. That said, I agree that it is not a very good choice for a ~ 5000 pound F250 with a gear numerically lower than 4.00:1 particularly when you consider tire diameter.

Don't guess it much matters at this point since that one is an unwieldy paperweight.

I guess one thing that really bothers me here is the cylinder walls and pistons, to my eyes it looks like the wear is inconsistent, I suspect there was another piston in there between the time it was bored & honed and the KB/SilvOLites. Probably never be able to prove that without calling in the CSI folks, but It just doesn't look right to me.

KB/SL pistons are considered good inexpensive pistons, but they are usually pretty heavy, and I don't see a lot of indications of fresh balancing.

I kind of wonder if this engine was built once, something went wrong, and it got "freshened up".

Just some random thoughts so far...

We will probably never know the true whole story.

[70_F100]

I guess one thing that really bothers me here is the cylinder walls and pistons, to my eyes it looks like the wear is inconsistent, I suspect there was another piston in there between the time it was bored & honed and the KB/SilvOLites. Probably never be able to prove that without calling in the CSI folks, but It just doesn't look right to me.

I was thinking along those same lines. It looks almost like the bore may be inconsistent, based on some of the "untouched" areas in the cylinders.

That would be worth checking with a dial bore gage. Maybe the boring bar moved during machining, or there was excessive wear in the boring bar.

I kind of wonder if this engine was built once, something went wrong, and it got "freshened up".

I'd say that is a VERY DISTINCT possibility. That, or maybe it was built once in one configuration, then torn down and reconfigured.

Purely speculation...

[DuckRyder]

Now onto the heads:

Good lord what happened there? Seriously why go to the trouble to do a set of heads and do them so poorly?

I will be curious to hear Toms take, but I think I'd keep those around for "what not to do" demonstrations and just start over. If I am seeing the seats correctly they aren't even good cores. Just not worth the trouble to me.

You could pick up another set of C8AE-H cores and work/port them, but all things considered starting with an aftermarket aluminum head seems the way to go to me.

[george worley]

Maybe in some round about way the windage tray incident was a good thing because it looks to me like that engine would have blew up in a short amount of time and you would not have know how poorly the engine was built. Anyway best of luck from here on out I hope PU does the right thing and refunds you money with out a court case.

[Ranchero50]

http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-parts/ ... -bdbd7.htm

http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-parts/ ... -b95cc.htm

Ugh. Hey, I wonder if you can hear the cam going in the video they sent? Seems a 274 shouldn't have been very lopy with a 390ci engine like it would with a 302ci engine.

Jamie