390FE (406ci) for #50, built by Tom Lucas at FE Specialties.

[robroy]

'Afternoon,

Here's what the bottom of the Browell tool looks like. I think the contact's being made by a thin ring of surface area around the number "4."



Thanks for considering my latest scenario!
Robroy

[FreakysFords]

Robroy, were it me, I'd take the tool, the old crank and measurement from the new (or load engine back up for machine shop to measure) and have them turn out what tiny amount is needed for flush mounting.

Shims could get fiddly. A tiny amount off at the base would be greater by the business end of the tool (as you already know).

The forget it and let it go option wouldn't be an option given all the time, energy, stress, thought and money you have in your build to date.

Regardless, I'd still call the tool company and report your issue. If nothing else, you might help out the next person. Best case scenario would be for them to pay the machine shop's bill for turning the tool.

If you have it turned by a machine shop, be sure to emphasize the importance of the non bolt end remaining true and round (so they don't chuck it so tight that it distorts).

[DuckRyder]

I would go with B and/or C.

It is possible that you could use two equal feeler gauges as shims?

[robroy]

Good evening FreakysFords and Robert, thanks for your superb replies!

Robroy, were it me, I'd take the tool, the old crank and measurement from the new (or load engine back up for machine shop to measure) and have them turn out what tiny amount is needed for flush mounting.

That's a very smart idea FreakysFords, thanks! I wouldn't have thought of that.

Shims could get fiddly. A tiny amount off at the base would be greater by the business end of the tool (as you already know).

Good points!

The forget it and let it go option wouldn't be an option given all the time, energy, stress, thought and money you have in your build to date.

I think you're right!

Regardless, I'd still call the tool company and report your issue. If nothing else, you might help out the next person.

That I'll do. I'll be curious to see if they've heard of this issue before. I could also ask Tom Lucas if he knows exactly where the crankshaft came from. If he did, that might be of interest to Browell.

Best case scenario would be for them to pay the machine shop's bill for turning the tool.

That's an idea for sure! I'll see what they think.

If you have it turned by a machine shop, be sure to emphasize the importance of the non bolt end remaining true and round (so they don't chuck it so tight that it distorts).

Thanks for pointing this out! If I go this route, I'll be very careful to advise caution on this potential issue.

Another benefit of having the tool updated to fit my new crankshaft would be having the machine shop test the tool at the same time, to make sure it's still straight (since I dropped it once).

FreakysFords, thanks for your great ideas!

I would go with B and/or C.

It is possible that you could use two equal feeler gauges as shims?

Perhaps--that's an excellent idea Robert! I wouldn't have come up with that. Feeler gauges should be the perfect thing for this.

Perhaps I'll start by trying to shim the tool. If I run in to any fiddly business, I'll have the tool modified and checked out! Browell might offer to update and check the tool themselves, which could be a good idea since they're the experts on its properties.

While using the shims I'd risk a false positive result--the tool could tell me everything's great, when it's really not! Somehow though, that seems unlikely. Perhaps because while there are an infinite number of potential misalignments, there's only one center position, and it's a very tight fit in the bell housing hole.

FreakysFords and Robert, thanks very much for your fantastic advice!
Robroy

[Alvin in AZ]

...permanent marker and paint ...the tool black and once dry install it until it binds,
then remove and see where the marker is removed from the tool or transferred to
the crank {and/or bellhousing}. If it's a couple scrapes it should show up as marking
on the crank {and/or bellhousing}, if it's all the way around then the... fit is too tight.

"fit is too tight" as opposed to... just touching on -one side- indicating something is crooked.

That is the really-cool-thing about newsgroups and website forums compared to email
or telephone! The original guy doesn't have to say it perfect like a lawyer, there's others
to help -both sides- out. :)

If you have a vernier caliper measure both diameters and compare,
same thing but different.

>Sorry Jamie, I don't understand exactly which diameters you're suggesting that I measure.

He means "all of them" ...especially the ones that pertain directly and a couple that don't
pertain directly even. ;) You don't know where the problem is until you check -everything-
and then decide.

>Perhaps I should draw an illustration of the area and label each surface of interest with
>a number or letter; that might help to establish a helpful reference. I might not have
>a proper understanding of some of the terms you're using. Thanks for being patient with
>me!

That wouldn't hurt anything and might prove useful but I bet you can understand this stuff
without all that. Use "that;)" time understanding the two different things that matter here...

The easy one first...

"parallel"
The rear surface where the transmission mounts, needs to be parallel with the engine block
but more important parallel with the flywheel. The Browell tool won't check that so good. :/

A dial indicator with a magnetic base can be stuck to the -flywheel- and the crank+flywheel
can turned around. The dial indicator's feeler would be following around on the surface where
the transmission mounts. Like a record player sorta. :) Only this time, the needle is moving
around a "fixed" record. LOL :)

Ok, that one's easy to picture so that'll make the next one easy too. :)

"centering"
Do the same thing as before. Attach the magnetic base to the flywheel but this time the
feeler/follower will be following around inside, on-the-edge of the big hole in the bellhousing. :)

The actual numbers you get don't count other than to use them when you subtract them
to find out how much -difference- there is as the dial indicator moves around and around.

A "range" of those numbers is what's listed in the Ford Truck Shop Manual.

Like... how much does the saw blade "wobble" in the Amazon picture? :)
It is -how much- the dial indicator's readings change. Get it? :)

Robroy, did you get my PM about it?
http://www.amazon.com/0-1-Dial-Indicato ... 605&sr=8-1

>I did! I'm sorry I haven't responded to your PM yet...

The question wasn't looking for anything other than was hoping you'd reply...
"yeah, Butthead, and I bought one and I checked out the parts and the bellhousing is fine! :)" LOL :)
...which it prob'ly is ok, you know it?
Just the fancy difficult to use Browell tool is messing you up here. :/

Yeah, I disagree with that Browell tool being "simple". :/
A guy has to learn how to use it and interpret what it's showing you.
And "prep" too. :/
A guy that's learned to use it has learned to clean the crap out of everything involved, I'd bet! :/
Dial indicator doesn't need nearly as much of that "clean business".

Alvin in AZ
ps- Whew, did that as fast as I could. :)
pps- Thanks to others like Jamie so I didn't have to do the whole friggin thing by myself!
ppps- See what I mean about this "bulletin board like system" being cool-as-anything? :D

[Ranchero50]

Sorry, sometimes it's so basic I forget other haven't been there before. The marker will show the rub marks (the anodizing is too hard to rub off one way or the other)

The dial reading on the inner edge of the bellhousing tranny opening will show offset (side to side, up and down) of the bellhouse, but can also show bend in the flywheel mating surface.

So first you would mount the dial on the block and sweep the flywheel mating surface on the crank to make sure it's flat and running true.

Then you would mount the flywheel and check it again from the block (trust but verify). If it wobbles, clean and deburr everything where they meet first, then talk to a machinist about getting it ground flat.

Then use the magnetic base to mount the dial indicator on the flywheel sruface, put the bellhousing one (clean all the mating surfaces first)

Now you know the crank isn't bent and is running true, measure the inside of the bellhousing opening total difference (reading 1.160 on one side and 1.140 on the other means the bell housing is .010" towards the lower number)

Then sweep the tranny mounting face in the same manner to be sure the bellhousing is parallel to the back of the block and the flywheel

Naturally all of this is uneeded when clean because Ford made these parts pretty good.


Jamie

[70_F100]

Robroy, just put it together. The bellhousing is held in alignment by dowels in the rear of the block. If you're off by .020-.030", there's NOT going to be any problem.

There have been literally THOUSANDS of these engines assembled without checking the bellhousing alignment.

If it's off, you may as well throw the block away.

That measurement is not critical unless you're running a 10K RPM Hemi (or similar) engine.

Remember, "KISS"!!!

[Fordnatic]

Toss the block! If it is off (laterally) a little you just get some offset alignment pins. It's a pretty common thing. They are easy to come by. It saves side loading and binding with the crank bushing/input shaft. A good thing to check if you want to do a "better than average" job as Robroy obviously does.

[OldRedFord]

Toss the block!

Your kidding right?

[Fordnatic]

Robroy, just put it together. The bellhousing is held in alignment by dowels in the rear of the block. If you're off by .020-.030", there's NOT going to be any problem.

There have been literally THOUSANDS of these engines assembled without checking the bellhousing alignment.

If it's off, you may as well throw the block away.

That measurement is not critical unless you're running a 10K RPM Hemi (or similar) engine.

Remember, "KISS"!!!

Oh, actually I was refuting the above which states to throw the block away if it's off! I should have made my sarcasm more clear.

[Alvin in AZ]

Fordnatic wrote:
>If it is off (laterally) a little you just get some offset alignment pins.

Was told to align mine using bolts and then drill the pin holes out to the
next larger size. What do you think of that idea? :)

>It's a pretty common thing.

I've read the same thing and Ford was as bad or worse than the rest, is
what I read. Mine's crooked, is all I know. :( My clutch has never been
good in my pickup from the first time I drove it off the lot on a test drive
at 14.2 miles on the OD! No kidding.

>A good thing to check if you want to do a "better than average" job as
>Robroy obviously does.

Yep. :)
And a dial indicator is the only way to check it like you mean business, IMO.

Jaimie's mentioning checking the run-out on the crank and flywheel first
were good ones, hadn't thought of those being my problem. :) The 6303
ball bearing "band-aid" sure enough worked good on mine. :) Didn't make
it perfect or even near perfect, just way better than ever before! LOL :)

Chances are tho, Robroy will check it with a dial indicator, find it within
limits, and slap it together! LOL :)

Alvin in AZ

[sport71]

Robroy when are you getting your engine in and running? So much suspence...
I hope to have mine in next week. Best of luck bro.
sport71

[robroy]

Good day!

Thank you all for your wonderful replies, and I'll respond to each one of them properly later on!

Here's some entertaining news: yesterday Tom Lucas was working on a Shelby Cobra in Hollister, which is just thirty minutes from my house. Then he came over here (from 7 to 9PM), just to check on the engine, see #50, and give me some advice on my build!

I'd noticed a small amount of oil seepage around the oil pan gasket, so he addressed that while he was here also. It turned out that the oil pan bolts had loosened up during the live runs at his shop, so he torqued them up and looked it over. He also double-checked the intake manifold bolts, but those hadn't backed off.

He normally re-torques the oil pan bolts right before customers pick up their engines, but with my interviewing him and all it had slipped his mind. That's what I get for distracting people with my oddball ideas!

I thought only old fashioned country doctors did house visits like that!

Tom also told me some great stories about his early engine building experiences. Meanwhile, Tom's fiancee and Kasie hit it off. Kasie got to show off her jewelry-making room to a receptive audience for once!

Since the moment I first called Tom on the phone, he has delivered the highest quality, most personable service I've ever experienced. Like I've said before, I find the combination of his warm personality and technical specialization quite remarkable! He's a rare sort of character.

Their dog Reilly was also here. My only regret's that I neglected to get a group photo!

Robroy

[FreakysFords]

Thanks for the update Robroy!

I had already thought fairly highly of FE S, but since your (RE) build hit mid stride, my opinion grew higher.
When it was completed and he agreed to let yall all meet there to see it run in, it grew higher still.
When he agreed to do the interview, It neared the ceiling.
NOW that he came by while he was near, not only is FE S #1 with a bullet on the list, Tom is definitely in my FE list of greats!

All that to say this. From this angle, it appears that FE S is the ONLY option for FE builds done right!

Robroy, I do hate that it took a pile of unsavory horse leftovers for you to get your engine done right, but I'm grateful for you attention to detail in chronicling it all for the rest of us to read and for all the info we've gathered as to who's who and what's what.

Thanks,
Frank

[sport71]

FreakyFord has said it all robroy. I was going through some of the same (horse leftovers, that is) as well. Which we have learned from, and hopefully no one has to go through what we did on there builds.
If it wasn't for Fordifiction so many of us would be clueless on so many things about these trucks.
Once again thank you for such great posting
.
sport