Proformance Unlimited 390FE for #50: a complete disaster.

[stangconv]

WOW!

Good luck robroy! I sure hope everything turns out fine!

[70shortwide]

So whats your next move? surely your not interested in their offer? I dont think luck has much to do with your situation, I wish you the wisdom and tact to make the best of a terrible situation. I hope you get what you deserve.

[69F100HDS]

Hello Robroy and sorry to hear about the engine issues. I started the first thread and got through a few pages, then read this entire thread and read enough to make me want to comment. It's apparent that you will need to move forward.


Since you are in California, you may know they have a Bureau of Automotive Repair. I had some issues with a $8K bill, including engine work, when I was stationed in San Diego and they act as a mediator with power to sanction a business and put a collection box in their office until they pay you back, based on their findings. They also have the power to revoke business licenses if the shop doesn't comply. Perhaps New Jersey has something like that. You may wish to contact their (New Jersey's) Attorney General's office and get some advice. They will let you know if New Jersey will act in your behalf or if you will need to retain an attorney or act on your behalf in small claims court. I would also call California's Bureau, just to see what they say. You may have some representation through them.

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/


Based on the thorough information you have, testimony, pictures, video, other customer case links, etc, I don't think you will have a problem at all. I don't find it a bit surprising how this is being handled by them, considering the workmanship and lack of attention to detail that has been presented so far. I am however, surprised they don't pick their fights more wisely.

In my limited experience, windage tray contact with the crankshaft is not an unusual issue. It doesn't cause complete valve-train/engine failure seen in your instance and it sure doesn't bend a crankshaft at the snout.

You have invaluable time and money into this.
Good luck to you sir.

[oaskills]

I have been watching this since the beginning, and I am just amzed at the detail you have put into not only documenting the case, but also in replying to everyone's questions and comments. I wish the best of luck to you! congrats on being able to keep a cool head despite all this.

[70shortwide]

[fuzzier1]

Bump, So what has happened RobRoy?

Fuzz

[Doug Comer]

Doug

[oaskills]

yeah your killing us!

[Alvin in AZ]

Don't we have like, another six months to go on that thing?

Alvin in AZ

[DuckRyder]

I'm going to guess robroy spoke to one of those lawyer type guys and the lawyer type guy told him to hush up on the old motor...

At least I *hope* robroy talked to one of those lawyer type guys...

[sideoilerfe]

I'm going to guess robroy spoke to one of those lawyer type guys and the lawyer type guy told him to hush up on the old motor...

Could be. However, discussing it publicly and privately(PM) are two different things.

I just hope things work out in the end and both parties learn a valuable lesson.

[BigMacAttack]

As I have been following your posts I noticed that

1. rob roy admits on his own forum that he is the one who damaged his engine due to inexperience. "I wouldn't considering sending it back to Proformance Unlimited, because it's out of warranty. And besides, I caused the problem by not checking the clearances when installing the windage tray, so I feel responsible for it." Robroy: "Yes I think that's the most probable thing at this point! Now that I know that I was supposed to check for crankshaft clearance after installing the tray, it makes sense. This may be painful but that's how inexperienced guys like me gain experience! Plus, if I need to remove the pan, I will have a custom drain plug installed this time (really)!"

2. It looks to me like Rob roy took it upon himself to go on a forum and ask questions about taking things apart on an engine. Rob roy should have just returned the engine, and I am sure the builder would have repaired the engine at no charge to the customer providing the fault was theirs or a manufacturer defect.

3. It looks like Rob roy was looking for a full refund of his engine and he was going to keep it and have it rebuilt elsewhere. How could someone expect a full refund when they were keeping the whole engine. I mean if you think about it, if you buy a car and want to get a refund due to having problems with it, you cant expect to be able to keep the car and get full payment back for the cost you paid.

3. The last is some notes on Tom Lucas which speak for themself and ironically this motor had a loud tapping noise:

FE Specialties of Sacramento, CA is the one who put my engine together. The owner, Tom Lucas, promised me a 600HP engine that made 377 to the wheels on a dyno after extensive tuning. Whats worse, is when I went to pick my car up the guy hit me for another $3000 dollars over what the amount was supposed to be. Basically a pay me or don't get your car type of deal. I contacted the man after my trip to the dyno to let him know what was going on and he suggested that I bring my car back to him so that he could retard the camshaft some in hopes of some more power. He then proceeded to also let me know that it would only cost me $75 an hour for him to do this and try to get what I already paid for out of the engine. Outside of paying him a lot more money, he refused to do anything at all about it. Unfortunately, there are several others getting this same treatment from this mans shop. This guy is a thief who will not stand behind his work and then blame his bad service on the owner of the vehicle. There was a Just letting those of you in the Sacramento area know in case you are in need of extensive engine work. Do not go to this guy! I have also found that this month alone, he has had 3 complaints to the B.A.R from customers. With me doing the same, it will be four. I don't know how many of you are in the Sacramento, CA. area but I figure its worth noting since he has built a few engines that were shipped all the way to Illinois.

I posted about a knock my engine developed. It ended up being a wristpin. It was bad enough to waste the connecting rod too. The big thing is that it was found the engine was put together dirty and ALL the bearings were going south. So it was really a blessing (take them how they come) that the rod made a little noise to the point that I looked into it more. If I had'nt, it would've got worse fast. I will be getting the car back this coming week sometime I'm sure with a few more added to it, actually about 150 more things added to it . Will take a few pictures for those that care to see it. Can't do anything to fun in it right now since I will be breaking it in but soon it will be at Sac Raceway again trying to run some numbers worthy of a 460.

[FreakysFords]

As I have been following your posts I noticed that

1. rob roy admits on his own forum that he is the one who damaged his engine due to inexperience. "I wouldn't considering sending it back to Proformance Unlimited, because it's out of warranty. And besides, I caused the problem by not checking the clearances when installing the windage tray, so I feel responsible for it." Robroy: "Yes I think that's the most probable thing at this point! Now that I know that I was supposed to check for crankshaft clearance after installing the tray, it makes sense. This may be painful but that's how inexperienced guys like me gain experience! Plus, if I need to remove the pan, I will have a custom drain plug installed this time (really)!"

First off, that's windage tray damage you're referring to, NOT the damages from a poor engine build that were the engine's ultimate demise.

2. It looks to me like Rob roy took it upon himself to go on a forum and ask questions about taking things apart on an engine. Rob roy should have just returned the engine, and I am sure the builder would have repaired the engine at no charge to the customer providing the fault was theirs or a manufacturer defect

Some people in this world still believe in honor and don't assume something was someone elses fault without first checking their own work.

3. It looks like Rob roy was looking for a full refund of his engine and he was going to keep it and have it rebuilt elsewhere. How could someone expect a full refund when they were keeping the whole engine. I mean if you think about it, if you buy a car and want to get a refund due to having problems with it, you cant expect to be able to keep the car and get full payment back for the cost you paid.

If I trade in my car and on yours, and yours ends up being something with major issues, I'm going to want my money and my car back. If you don't have my ORIGINAL car, in it's ORIGINAL condition, then you have two legal options, provide a full refund PLUS the REPLACEMENT value of my trade in, or a full refund and lose your car. How is this any different with a core?? He's supposed to take just any old core and hope it's a buildable one?

3. The last is some notes on Tom Lucas which speak for themself and ironically this motor had a loud tapping noise:

Don't know how this is relivant, but ok. I don't know who you are, but if I wanted to find out, I could and I'm most certain that in no more than a few hours, I could find plenty people who'd trash talk you. My guess is that someone had a specific way they wanted an engine built and didn't want to have it built right. Tom knows what he's doing and does it right the first time.

"put together dirty........... bearing going south" I'd love to see this person's cam and lifters, and take my mic to them. I'd gladly bet that the engine is a flat tappet cam engine and the owner didn't use high ZDDP oil or additive.

Either way, I've heard from MANY of Tom's customers and not heard ONE bad word until I read your rant. I've never even met the man, but hold him in high regard. Any man who'd travel to a different country to make sure one of his customers engine is right, is in a good league. That's not taking into account that he personally contacts many of his customers (perhaps all, I don't know), to ensure that all is in fact well with their build. Ever had a builder come to your home to check out his work? Tom has.

Have a wonderful day,
Frank

[70_F100]

You tell it, Frank!!!

I wonder if BigMacAttack works for PU???

[Alvin in AZ]

Mac, you skipped right over the bent crank, bad heads and wiped cam lobe. LOL :)
...and much lower than promised HP and compression which were crooked, not a simple mistake.

Alvin in AZ
ps- Lived in Sacto a couple years ("Rosemont" Folsom/Watt) where you at Mac? :)