now that I have bought the 390

[1972hiboy]

Continuing from my first thread which was 360 or 390? Now that I have bought the 390 to put into my 72 4x4 f250 it was time to unload it and get it into the mancave. Posted are a couple shots of the motor just getting it off the truck.

390onpicker.jpg

Still freshly on the crane. since this is sappsed to be a non-fired rebuilt I will only start with getting the belts and hoses and oil pan off( had a 4x2 oil pan I of course will need a 4x4 application)

390sideview.jpg

390backshot.jpg

[Racer Z]

Is that rebuilt?
My long block came without oil pan; valve covers; manifolds (both intake and exhaust). I had to take all the accessories off my old engine and put them on the new (rebuilt).

edit: Oh now I remember what you had said. It is an un-used, but previously installed, fresh motor.

[1972hiboy]

got the engine on the engine stand, Of course I couldnt stop there, So I went ahead and took the oil pan off and the exhaust manifolds. I figure I was going to do a very good inspection to verify if this was in re-conditioned condition. With the pan off I was happy to see there were brand new pistons in there and cylinder walls were very clean with crosshatch marks shining in the light. The bottom end overall was clean and made me belive this was indeed rebuilt. WIth the ex manifolds off I was able to inspected the ex valves and they too were picture perfectly clean. However when I got the pan off I did find some rusty looking oil that had puddled ( not very much) it scattered when I tipped the engine. There were a couple small patches of surface rust on the block ( most likely had been sitting for a little while) I did find some debris in the pan (crankcase) area. small particles which reminded me of wood, they were not metal but fiberous, I really have no clue what this stuff is. You can se on the oil pump and pan little spreckles. Im on the fence about just cleaning and running or doing a complete teardown to inspect clean re-lube and re-assemble.

390panoff.jpg

390oilpickup.jpg

[1972hiboy]

the fellow I purchased from was going to install this engine in a 70 cougar and it turned out not to fit. I did not buy from machine shop. but the price was right (600) and if it indeed was rebuilt I figured i would come out way ahead....

[Racer Z]

I totally understand your mixed feelings. Pull the plugs and try to inspect the cylinders.

Before I decided to shell out the two grand for my long block, I went and looked at a "fresh rebuild" that had been sitting in an unfinished Rat-Rod. (Lot's of those here in So Cal.) It had rat turds inside of it. "See ya!" I said and we had a good laugh on the drive home.

The collection in the pan is an omen of the areas that you can't see. If you install it as-is and change the a few times during the first 200 miles, it might be ok for 50 thousand miles. Or not.
A tear down with good cleaning will insure the expected 100,000 miles. The full set is about $150 and some time.

$600 + 150 and time is still a good deal for a fresh motor. Sweet.

[robroy]

Good day Rich,

It looks like you've gotten a great deal here!

My uneducated and inexperienced opinion's that you should run the engine as-is, keeping your investment in it at a minimum.

My guess is that if you were to take it apart just to clean it out, you'd begin the inevitable process of discovering things that you'd want to do differently. And thus would basically begin a long, drawn-out project. It doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for. I'm guessing that the chances of pulling it all apart and finding its internals to be exactly to your liking is very slim. You seem to know a lot about engines and it would be all too easy for one-thing-to-lead-to-the-next.

If you were to install it as-is and it had a premature failure, well, it was only $600. You'd probably be able to salvage parts from it for a rebuild and you wouldn't be set back much.

Robroy

[1972hiboy]

Oh nice. Rat turds in the cylinders???? thats awesome I guess it really was a rat rod "honk honk" Oh man I crack myself up. Before I purchased I did pull a plug and move to TDC in that cylinder with a flashlight I was able to clearing read .030 on top the piston. My guess is that assembly lubed had thinned out from sitting and drained to bottom on pan carying possibly condensation? Im normally very weary about buying "rebuilt" engines from private partys but It was worth going to see. once I got there I did see that he really was planning on using it. new water pump, new duraspark dist. belts hoses. you know? It didnt come across like he just had this in his garage and wanted to get rid of it and who knows where he got it from but since it I think if it would have fit in his car he would have used it so that helped. Im leaning twards doing the teardown. Im sure 70_f100 would agree that the peace of mind is well worth it. Even though ideally I would have just liked to pop it in. but like you said im still ahead of the 2,grand for a rebuilt from machine shop engine.

[1972hiboy]

Good day Rich,

It looks like you've gotten a great deal here!

My uneducated and inexperienced opinion's that you should run the engine as-is, keeping your investment in it at a minimum.

My guess is that if you were to take it apart just to clean it out, you'd begin the inevitable process of discovering things that you'd want to do differently. And thus would basically begin a long, drawn-out project. It doesn't sound like that's what you're looking for. I'm guessing that the chances of pulling it all apart and finding its internals to be exactly to your liking is very slim. You seem to know a lot about engines and it would be all too easy for one-thing-to-lead-to-the-next.

If you were to install it as-is and it had a premature failure, well, it was only $600. You'd probably be able to salvage parts from it for a rebuild and you wouldn't be set back much.

Robroy

You are so right! Im still on the fence, the oil accumulation really didnt bother me but the debris I found in the pan and on the oil pump do. With the last engine I had to buy new parts and wait for machine work to be done. There are abviously new parts installed in this one and I do believe it is in un-fired conditition. and since replacing a motor takes time in itself id really rather not have to do it again for a long while. Im brainstorming tearing it down taking it to machine shop to get all measured up confirm what I have then hopfully with new gaskets and assembly lube just torque it all back together. luckily I can get it torn down in a evening and once the machine work is done since I have all the new parts for it assembly should only take a couple nights after work. But I know exactly what you mean. I may be opening pandoras box here the chances of finding what I want to find are slim, But I do want to best chance of sucess. Its a double edged sword....

[Racer Z]

Oh nice. Rat turds in the cylinders???? thats awesome I guess it really was a rat rod "honk honk" Oh man I crack myself up.

Not the cylinders. In the intake galley. The guy that was selling it made a business (hobby) out of buying unfinished projects and selling them for parts. In this case, he had taken off the intake manifold to sell separately. He showed us the "three deuce" manifold. He left the turds alone (in my opinion) cause he wasn't out to rip off anybody. He had several other really cool looking unfinished hot-rods.

And yes, it was really a "Rat Motor". lmao.

[1972hiboy]

So now that I have the pan off I was able to run the crankshaft casting number. it turns out I have a crank casting of C4AE-A it comes back up as a 352.... Wow, not a 390 So I may have to go to my parts engine I have which I think is a old 390 and check to see if I have a 390 crank. So It looks as though a tear down is in order. I did talk to machinist buddy of mine who works at a local mahcine shop and he said I can bring it in on a saturday and we'll do a tear down and inspection and re-assembly not a big deal. But kinda a bummer for sure....so It looks like this may end up being a engine building thread!

[robroy]

Hey Rich!

Sorry to hear about this potential let-down!

Out of curiosity I checked in my FE book, How to Rebuild Big-Block Ford Engines, by Steve Christ. I've heard that this book isn't known for being super accurate. Yet on page 52 there's a crankshaft chart, and just like you've found, C4AE-A's listed as a 1964 352 crankshaft. The book says that it has the same throw and journal sizes as the 360.

Robroy

[Racer Z]

Hey Rich!

Sorry to hear about this potential let-down!

Out of curiosity I checked in my FE book, How to Rebuild Big-Block Ford Engines, by Steve Christ. I've heard that this book isn't known for being super accurate. Yet on page 52 there's a crankshaft chart, and just like you've found, C4AE-A's listed as a 1964 352 crankshaft. The book says that it has the same throw and journal sizes as the 360.

Robroy

And that note brings me back to my first thought, the one I chose to bite my tongue on. Clean it and reassemble it with all of it's fresh parts, unless there is something obviously wrong. It's a lot of motor for $600, even if it's not a true 360.

[1972hiboy]

this loo

352 liftervalley.jpg

once I got the rockers

352leafinliftervalley.jpg

Hey guys, So yesterday I drove out to my fathers (where I store extra vehicles) and peeked into the bed of a extra 4x4 bump I have where I knew there was a extra short block hiding, I couldnt find and casting numbers on the block itself but did locate a probible casting mark to identify whether it was a 360 or 390 crank ( thanks for the tip Robroy!) Once its removed from the engine ill get it double checked by a machine shop. Ive pretty much decied on doing a tear down and putting in the needed internals to make a acual 390 out of this engine. Once I got home last evening I started to break the motor down.....

352rockershaft.jpg

[1972hiboy]

352cylinderhead.jpg

352headsandblock.jpg

[Racer Z]

It's never been fired, that much is clear. Obviously it needs to be completely disassembled, cleaned and inspected. The bearings have probably dried out and the rings may have stuck to the cylinder walls. You may find "ring indentations" on the cylinder walls that need to be honed out. I'd think about new rings if that's true.