I am in a jam and I dont know what to do

[Joe Kriston]

Show them the price of mulch, ----37 x 24=$888.00 and tell them "sorry, I must have been drunk or something, but I cannot supply that much mulch and three days of labor for seven easy payments of $50.00 each, totaling $350.00...And then go get a job...You have no idea what you're doing bidding work...And if these people have no money, why in the hell did your ex refer them to you in the first place?...

[fordman]

we are all expressing opinion on very little information. but with alot of our own experiences. let us know more details and mayeb we can help evenmore. what is right and what is wrong is up to the individual to decide.

[zoso]

If I wanted to piss every one of my customer/clients off, I'd show them a bill for more than I quoted, even if estimated. Fixed price bids are the only way to keep people happy, I have found at least. I know a lot of guys that do time and materials.

If no money has been paid, then I don't see a big moral deal here. Just a little flaky. Move on. Can't squeeze water out of a rock, and payment scheduling on $350 is making chuckle. I wouldn't say go get a day job yet, but you have to reel that illogical level of people pleasing into the boat and shoot it.

[Joe Kriston]

we are all expressing opinion on very little information. but with alot of our own experiences. let us know more details and mayeb we can help evenmore. what is right and what is wrong is up to the individual to decide.

I agree...Old Red hasn't been back to elaborate on the details, but it is kinda fun to express our moral righteousness...This really doesn't seem like a question of keeping one's word as much as ignorantly shooting one's mouth off...If one can't fulfill the contract, then cancel the contract, or agreement...

[michael69]

So a business messes up and the customer gets stuck and that is O.K? That is what is wrong with America. No one takes responsibility and it is always someone else's fault.

If he agreed to provide a service for a price (and payments) and "bid" it (vs "estimated") and he doesn't do it then that is a scumbag thing to do. It speaks of selfishness, a lack of morality and a failure to accept personal responsibility. Period, and that goes for anyone else that does business that way.

We must be the only ones that understand what it means to bid a job at a certain price,and stick to a mans word. No wonder the world is in such bad shape. Can't trust anyone these day. Stuff like this is why the courts are full of people that break contracts!!

[fordman]

If I wanted to piss every one of my customer/clients off, I'd show them a bill for more than I quoted, even if estimated. Fixed price bids are the only way to keep people happy, I have found at least. I know a lot of guys that do time and materials.

If no money has been paid, then I don't see a big moral deal here. Just a little flaky. Move on. Can't squeeze water out of a rock, and payment scheduling on $350 is making chuckle. I wouldn't say go get a day job yet, but you have to reel that illogical level of people pleasing into the boat and shoot it.

that is true. esitimates can be used to really overcharge soemone. if you wanted to. i would never do it. bids are hard soemtiems when material prices change on you . or unforseen stuff pops out of a wall. but that is a add on.

[BiggDogg]

Like others have said, everyone has opinion on how to handle things like this. You could do the job at as-is, do it well, and not make much money. Chances are they may have more jobs for you in the future, maybe even refer you to other people who need stuff done, where you can try to make yourself some more money. Ultimately, I'd suggest doing what you think is best for you and your business in the long run. Good luck

[Whateverman]

So a business messes up and the customer gets stuck and that is O.K? That is what is wrong with America. No one takes responsibility and it is always someone else's fault.

If he agreed to provide a service for a price (and payments) and "bid" it (vs "estimated") and he doesn't do it then that is a scumbag thing to do. It speaks of selfishness, a lack of morality and a failure to accept personal responsibility. Period, and that goes for anyone else that does business that way.

We must be the only ones that understand what it means to bid a job at a certain price,and stick to a mans word. No wonder the world is in such bad shape. Can't trust anyone these day. Stuff like this is why the courts are full of people that break contracts!!

-there's nothing scummy or untrustworthy about it - he hasn't finished the job & so he hasn't been paid any $$$
he most likely won't get paid if he does finish the job and if he does he's still gonna lose a bunch of money on top of his wasted time and effort - if he's smart he'll bail on that job fast,deal with the small amount of ill-will that'll come his way,lick his wounds and learn from his mistake

[michael69]

You need to reread the post.No where in his post he said he wasn't getting paid. He said himself that he would take payments of $50.00. He is the one that went out on his own renting chippers and cutting down trees to try and save money instead of removing 3 BUSHES AND SPREADING MULCH. Like the job was suppose to be. He is the one causing all the extra cost. People just need to man up and do what they promise. How would you feel if someone told you $2000 to paint your truck. They start,get it sanded and half body work done. Then call you and tell you they didn't price it high enough and it would be $4000.Samething you would want it done for the $2000.

[zoso]

Fordman,

If I run into a snag, I just eat it: I do have a clause for hidden debris below grade however. If you always come in close, then people appreciate it and no need for fixed amounts. Also if people know your t+m then they are comfortable with the set-up.

I had one guy postpone a contract 6 months out. I said I'd have to adjust the contract amount in 6 months to allow for changes in materials pricing/supply. He went ballistic. Threatened to sue me, tell everyone I was a slime ball, etc. I'd get nervous asking for $400 more on a 5 figure job with these people. I'd rather just be fixing barbed wire again in the sticks, but that just barely paid for beer.

[fordman]

my brother in law says his estimates are good for 30 days only. because of rises in material costs that can happen.

[woods]

You need to reread the post.No where in his post he said he wasn't getting paid. He said himself that he would take payments of $50.00. He is the one that went out on his own renting chippers and cutting down trees to try and save money instead of removing 3 BUSHES AND SPREADING MULCH. Like the job was suppose to be. He is the one causing all the extra cost. People just need to man up and do what they promise. How would you feel if someone told you $2000 to paint your truck. They start,get it sanded and half body work done. Then call you and tell you they didn't price it high enough and it would be $4000.Samething you would want it done for the $2000.

I am a little (just a little) surprised that we folks that have this particular viewpoint seem to be in the minority. Without getting into loopholes and semantics about this situation, it seems to me as simplistic as something that you should have been taught at a young age. Mistakes will always happen, the real testament to a person is how you deal with it once you made it.
I feel it safe to say that a large percent of us have been in a situation where something suddenly ended up to be more money than you originally thought. Like buying a vehicle from a dealership. You haggle the guy down on a price, then when they are drawing up the paperwork you get the undercoating fee, general overcharge fee, charged for the coffee you drank while haggling fee, the next thing you know, you're paying what the asking price was anyway.
That is not really even a good example, because you can say no thank you and walk away from that with nothing more than some time lost on your part. The point of it is that I don't think anyone likes it. Sure, it's how things work these days, but they shouldn't.
I had a very similar situation to this on the side of the client. I had a friend of a friend come out to my home to have a look at expanding my courtyard because I needed a larger turn around area. He said he could do what I wanted for 3,000. I told him that sounded good and told him to start. He worked for a few days, turned my yard and driveway into something that resembled a war zone, then comes to me and tells me that he has done 3 grand worth of work so far and will need more to continue. I did not have anymore money and told him I didn't, so, he loaded up his equipment and left my place torn up.
I did the best I could myself to clean up the mess that was left, but it was still a wreck. It had to stay that way for a few months before I could pay to have someone come out and fix it properly.
This is partially my fault due to being a bit naive. A guy told me 3k, shook my hand and I thought that would be good. I should of nailed him down, printed up a contract, had him sign it and all that jazz. But would it have not been better if people did what they said in the first place and not have to just automatically assume you're going to be left holding the bag on a deal?
I mean, I spent most of my life in the service and now I'm an engine builder, what the heck to I know about landscaping? All I knew was what I could afford and he hit it. His job is to know what something will cost, and it seems a bit wrong to punish me because he quoted it wrong. All I ask if for someone to do what they said, it seems simple.

However, you will have to take the things I say with a grain of salt due to my background. It was pretty black and white. You do your job, if you don't, you will be killed and many other may be as well. This makes a guy view things with no real "gray area". Like "I did not give you the handshake where I held my forefinger straight up so it does not count" kind of gray area. Just do what you said the best you can.

No more than three months ago, I took in a 69 2wd bump on a trade. I had about 900 bucks in it. I advertised it for 1000. I had some interest right away. One was a young man probably 20 years old, he had just started a new job, his old car took a dive he needed a way to get to work and he loved this style truck (as do I). He came up, looked at it and tells me that all he has is 400 bucks and wondered if it would be okay if he gave me the rest out of his first paycheck. Me being a bit of a sucker (and dumb) for a kid who seemed to be trying his best to make it. I told him okay, but I keep the title until it's paid for. He calls me up two weeks later and goes down a list of things he has found wrong with a 42 year old 1000 dollar pickup (mostly wiring). He now wants to offer me a lower price for the pickup he bought and has been driving for two weeks. He pretty much demands that I only take another 250 and give him the title. I of course tell him that's not how this is going to work. Now all of a sudden, I am the bad guy, he's mad at me and feels I am ripping him off. So right now, I have the title and 400 bucks for that pickup. Sure, I could go and get it back, but shouldn't he have just done what he said? The whole thing is just very foreign to me if I'm being perfectly honest. I don't think I am very well cut out for civilian life yet.

[fordman]

i wouldnt have gave him the truck until paid in full. so it has problems. that is why you check something out before you buy. but the point is taken. doing what is right is the thing to do. walking out in the middle of a job isnt right. either telling thme a estimate was wrong or a bid was wrong is different. they are throwing in a free car with the 350.00 so that is extra money right there. no startign the job is different even if you gave a bid. that does give you the change to walk away. especially if they didnt give you any money.

[Joe Kriston]

Ok, moral dilemma questions can make for interesting discussions, especially when it isn't one's own money that is at stake...Here's the info I gathered from the first post..."Being desperate for work, I'll do some landscaping for you for $350.00 including materials and labor...Now, check on the cost of materials....Whoops!...$888.00 for materials alone...Lessee, Do I use my credit card or borrow the money from my inlaws to pay for the mulch...Or should I go to the customers and say ' I had a brain fart and quoted you a materials included price on something that I had no clue what the cost of materials would be'?...So far, no yard is torn up, no trucks are half-sanded, no roofs are stripped---The job ain't started yet!...Why do you think virtually every state allows a three day right to rescind a contract?...Because people do stupid things on the spur of the moment...Quoting a price including materials, not knowing what materials would cost was STUPID!..If you were Old Red's customers, and he explained the scenario to you, would you still make him fulfill his quote "to keep his word"?...I would not..

[woods]

Ok, moral dilemma questions can make for interesting discussions, especially when it isn't one's own money that is at stake...Here's the info I gathered from the first post..."Being desperate for work, I'll do some landscaping for you for $350.00 including materials and labor...Now, check on the cost of materials....Whoops!...$888.00 for materials alone...Lessee, Do I use my credit card or borrow the money from my inlaws to pay for the mulch...Or should I go to the customers and say ' I had a brain fart and quoted you a materials included price on something that I had no clue what the cost of materials would be'?...So far, no yard is torn up, no trucks are half-sanded, no roofs are stripped---The job ain't started yet!...Why do you think virtually every state allows a three day right to rescind a contract?...Because people do stupid things on the spur of the moment...Quoting a price including materials, not knowing what materials would cost was STUPID!..If you were Old Red's customers, and he explained the scenario to you, would you still make him fulfill his quote "to keep his word"?...I would not..

Now that's a totally different cat. IF nothing had been done, then the right move would be to be upfront and tell them that you screwed up and doing it for that price would put you in the hole. If they wish for someone else to do then you understand completely. That's not really an issue of keeping your word, that's admitting you made a mistake and trying to fix it the best way you can. Of course, now he has made a mistake that's quite a shot deeper (as you know) and needs to deal with that mistake.
Many times I will misquote something and do it anyway (not saying that's right, just what I do), but if I were in his situation where it would totally break me, I would have to tell them I made a mistake. Of course, if I yanked apart his engine and it was all in pieces, I would not feel it ok to tell him I made a mistake. So I guess in this case, it really hinges on the work already started.