Project 460 into a 72 F-250

[Kurt Combs]

You have probably seen my posts about acquiring a 77 F-150 for the rebuilt 460 and C-6 it has in it. 70Shortbox suggested I start a thread about this process and I think that will possibly help other who might be thinking of the same conversion and it will help keep me on track. So here goes.

The 77 F-150 seems to be running pretty good with the exception of an exhaust leak on the drivers side that I can't isolate. I have decided to leave that for investigation when I remove the engine. Today I purchase a 2166 Performer intake manifold on Ebay for $172 plus shipping, it has never been installed on an engine. That was about as high as I would go on the manifold because Summitracing.com has them for $236 including shipping and no tax to California. This past weekend I started to clean out my shop and organize it enough to give me room to work. Problem is I have a 900 sq foot shop, but I have a disassemble 65 El Camino sitting in my hoist bay which means I will be doing the conversion outside in the gravel. I might push the elky outside, but I really don't want it to be rained on. This coming weekend I plan to finish cleaning the shop and tossing some things I have been hoarding. I will also be ordering the timing chain set soon and the distributor from the guy in Oregon everyone suggests I use. So when this engine is in my 72 it will have all the smog "de-tuning" fixed, adding free horsepower and torque. Last night I did research on this site and others and figured out how to wire the Ford Duraspark system into my bump. That was confusing at first, but I think it will be just a small bump in the road. I am getting really excited about this swap and want to start disassembly of the 77 dent, but I want to do it with a plan. I really want to start selling parts off the dent, but I know I must wait until I have everything off of it I want and the project is done, then the garage sale. Pictures of existing engine bays and progress will be coming shortly. Especially engine perches and drive shaft/tranny modifications. Many questions will also be asked, it's just my nature.

[Kurt Combs]

Here are today's thoughts and a couple of pictures I took after work.

I am looking at locating the Duraspark module somewhere inboard of the left hood hinge. Here is where it is located on the 77 F-150

planning engine swap 012.jpg

This is where it will be going.

planning engine swap 003.jpg

Also considering using the 77 F-150's cold air intake on the 72. The cold air intake is on the right side of the radiator and it just feeds cold air into the intake of the stock air cleaner. I'll check clearances after I remove the 360 from my bump to make sure it will fit. Seems easy enough, plasma cutter time!

planning engine swap 013.jpg

More to follow.

[Swegner99]

Looks like you have a plan of attack, keep up the work. It always help me to make a list to look at, plus it helps you feel like your accomplsishing stuff when you scratch it off the list.

[Kurt Combs]

Good idea, I forgot to start a list. It will help me to stay focused and also have a realistic idea of costs that I am going to have. (then multiply by 2 for what it will really cost) The thing I really have to control is my impulse to save every part off the donor truck and worrying what someone might want some part that I could be using or destroying saving myself some time. I hate to waste old car parts, but I don't want to be running a wrecking yard either.

[Swegner99]

Lol, yeah its hard not to horde everything. But if there is stuff in good shape that your not going to be using, then throw it under your bench or something. If you have a little extra space then its worth it to hang onto, then sell it off a little at a time. Helps to offset the cost of the build. Just dont save every nut and bolt

[Kurt Combs]

Problem I have is shipping all those parts I could sell. I don't know how people have the time to package and then take things to UPS for shipping. I have to do some research on easy shipping methods. The other problem I see in selling all those large parts is Greyhound is 90 miles away and we have no shipping docs in my county. I am thinking about setting aside a month to just clear out old parts and deal with the shipping issue, but that will have to be later. For now I am rearranging my messy shop and doing that engine swap, then I will start clearing things out and selling what I can.

[Kurt Combs]

The engine is out of the 1977 F-150 and sitting on my shop floor. Hopefully I can remove the old 360 from my 1972 F-250 tomorrow. Below are some pictures of the 460 and C-6. When I have both C-6's out I will be taking them to the local transmission shop to swap the 72 tail housing onto the newer tranny. I could use the front half of the drive shaft that came with the newer tranny and not have to do the swap, but I want the tranny checked out anyway, so I'll just let the tranny guys make the tail shaft and housing swap. I am finding that when the rebuilt engine was installed in the F-150 things that I would replace were reused. Fuel lines and engine mounts were old and cracked, but reused. Below are pictures of the engine/tranny.

[Kurt Combs]

Pictures coming, but I don't have time to resize and upload today:

If you saw my other posts you know that when I pulled the radiator out of the 77 F-150 I found that it would not bolt into my 72 F-250 because of the mount. Sound like I could use the original radiator out of my 72 and it would work with the 460, but I wouldn't look as cool (or cool as well under heavy load). Well today I was at a wrecking yard looking for a good seat and made a discovery, a 78 F-250 radiator will bolt into my 72 and it is the bigger radiator. I was really surprised and immediately went and got some $$$ to buy the radiator. Got it out of the truck and found it to be a four row, but it has leaks at the ends of the tubes. So tomorrow I am taking the radiator from the 77 and 78 to a shop and they will swap the mounts and I will be good to go. Like I said, I was amazed that a later model heavy duty radiator mount would fit.

Second item that is exciting, I took two transmissions to the tranny shop and they are going to make one that will bolt right into my 72 and bolt up to the 460. Should be one or two hours labor and a few gaskets and seals. They are also going to look everything over to make sure it was rebuilt and done correctly. With this modification I can use my original drive shaft, without modification.

Tomorrow I order parts and clean the engine bay as well as I can. Not going to pressure wash as I would have no way to push it back into my shop afterwards. Then I upgrade the engine's cam timing and start re-assembly.

[Kurt Combs]

Here are some pictures of my progress:

Picture of the power steering coil in donor truck (1977 F-150)
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 093254.jpg
Here are two pictures of the cooling coil after I installed it in my bump
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 144642.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 144656.jpg
FE and 460 perches side by side
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 115150.jpg
The donor 460 had an odd adapter plate (Q-jet?) that will be replaced when I install the Edelbrock Performer manifold and Holly carb
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 112843.jpg
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 112908.jpg
Radiator out of donor that would not fit my bump
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 144725.jpg
Radiator from a 1978 F-250 that sacrificed its side straps so the donor radiator would fit in my bump. Cost $50 to have the 77 radiator pressure tested and 78 straps swapped.
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo29 ... 144735.jpg
Two transmissions that are to be one. The tail shaft and shift levers from my original C-6 were swapped onto the 460 style C-6. Seals changed: $216 + parts (also found out the torque converter was causing a leaky seal, $85, and flex plate teeth were bad $60+)

So far yesterday and today I have made decent progress. I have decided that the cold air supply to the air cleaner is a luxury and will be put off into the future. My guess is that its main purpose is noise reduction in the cab. I have cleaned the engine bay and removed pounds of grease and dirt. Engine perches are installed and cross members are clean and painted ready to be installed tomorrow. I paint things to make me feel better. Not a pretty paint job, probably worse than the factory, but it looks better to me. tomorrow I will cut the tail pipe off the donor's exhaust system and install its hanger that attaches to a cross member at the rear of the muffler. Considering the frames are different widths and lengths I will locate it from the center line of the frame. I hope to install the exhaust system as a unit after the engine is lowered into place. If it will go around the tranny it should be fine. I will then have a muffler shop make up a new tail pipe it was rotted at the end anyway.

As a note; when talking to the radiator shop owner he mentioned that there are four different styles of radiators mounts for these trucks. So it is definitely an issue when planning to take everything from one truck to make the 460 upgrade to another.

I also have all the parts to set my cam's timing to zero and get rid of the spread bore manifold. The recurved distributor is probably in the mail, but not holding me up at this point.

More to follow, with pictures.

[Kurt Combs]

Managed to put the exhaust system from the 77 in my bump and it looks like it will work. Not certain because the 460 isn't installed yet, but it looks pretty good so far. I might have to cut the tail pipe off during the install to move everything back, but I will just have to wait and see. Also removed the spread bore manifold and replaced it with a Performer and installed the new timing set. Next I have to put the front engine parts back on and connect the transmission. It might be Thursday before I can spend any amount of time in the shop, my daughter is coming home from college this week of a brief visit and I want to spend some time with her.

[Kurt Combs]

Unloaded the transmission tonight. Here is a picture of the hybrid, case is from the 1977 F-150 and the tail housing and shift levers are from my 72 bump:

tranny converted to 72 tailshaft and shift levers.jpg

Here is the engine with the Performer installed, but missing a few other pieces:

Performer on 460.jpg

This rust really freaked me out, until I figured out it probably was caused by a leak of external water that seeped into the valley area.

rust on intake gasket.jpg

My distributor arrived today with the following specifications:

500 - zero degrees
1,000 - 3 degrees
1500 - 8 degrees
2000 - 12 degrees
2500 - 18 degrees
2850 - 20 degrees
12-13 degrees of vac advance at 18" of vacuum
14-16 BTDC Initial

This is for a stock motor with 0 degrees stock cam timing, in a F250 with 3:54 rear gears and 31" tires for towing and torque.

More to follow......

[elgemcdlf]

Kurt your engine is not out of a F150. It is from a car. As I understand it all truck 460's have rear sump pans on them. The dipstick goes through the side of the pan. My engine came from a '76 Lincoln and my dipstick is right up front like yours. The Twin I Beam crossmember will accommodate the front sump pan. I have a friend of mine with this configuration in a '62 sitting on a '74 chassis & a 429. With my CV IFS I needed to use the rear sump pan so I could get the engine to sit low enough so the headers could dump in the correct spot.

[Kurt Combs]

If that is the case, what compression ratio would I have? I assumed it would be low if from a 77 F-150.

[BobbyFord]

Are the heads D3VE casting?
Also, I'm pretty sure that a 77 F150 came stock with a front sump oil pan.

[Kurt Combs]

I'll check the head casting numbers tomorrow, too late tonight to go out to the shop. However I would be amazed if it wasn't the original 77 engine.