Obama

[rltvader]

Sooo... Barack Obama won.

[mrollings53]

It appears so. But don't fret, those that voted for Romney. Republicans still have the House, so you'll have four more years of nothing getting done.

To be honest I'd rather have a Legislature and President that could work together and actually accomplish something. It doesn't even really matter if they support the things I support, or if what comes of it does any actual good. We will be that little bit wiser, and can at least make a more knowledgeable decision later.

[blumule]

nothing getting done? it seems to me he gets whatever he wants [obamacare]. troubles me to the core. i really thought americas traditional values and morals would rise to the occasion and show the world we are still a god fearing nation.idk any more where were headed. i think if we look around at whats in the heart of man [ sports , hollywood, sex, greed, money , possessions] we will find the answer.but remember what god said. If my people, who are called by my name will rise up and pray i will deliver them.trust in the lord my fordification brothers and not in the world.whew! i feel better already.

[convincor]

Problem is there's more non americans....

[68 Ford Stepside]

Too many americans can not see the big picture. Not if but when the american dollar collapses, having a job won't mean anything. It will take the bed of a F100 Ford truck full of money to purchase a loaf of bread, if there are any loaves left.

[kf7mjf]

See, here is where I have some issues. Obama, Romney. It's a question of *which* sets of civil liberties you want screwed with. But then I want to run screaming into the woods when people bring up "god fearing". Why? Because this is not a theocracy. Seriously, I don't care which bearded dude in the sky you believe in, or which set of spirits (Unless it's the Ford Truck spirit, but that's different LOL) YOUR RELIGIOUS IDEALS ARE NOT A VALID BASIS FOR LAW. Why? Because this nation is a rule of secular law, not theocratic law.

"Oh, so murder should be ok? Look at all the moral values that come from Religion X!" Nice straw man, let's cut this one off at the pass. There are a number of fairly sound moral ideas in many religions. Of course then the exact same religions have some pretty stupid morals. The Christian religion does not prohibit slavery, and it's fairly harsh on women. Very patriarchal, very.... tribal. In this 21st Century, we know that it's a Bad Thing(TM) to steal, to kill, etc... Not because "God" said so, but because we know it is wrong to violate the fundamental rights of another human being. Why? Because they are human beings, and much of the western world believes human beings are inherently sovereign. Now if you want to start getting into the Deist notions of where does *that) sovereignty come from that's fine, but the basic idea is that the individual has certain fundamental and inalienable rights.

So that means a Christian, a Muslim, an Atheist, or that guy with the low rider Chevy all are considered equal in the eyes of THE LAW. Not God. The Law. The Law in this nation is a secular construct, and embodied not in a bible or torah or koran, but in The Constitution. Yes, the Founding Fathers went on about a Creator. Fine. Groovy. Neato. Far out. They didn't say which one. It's a very Freemason concept. Not to accept a particular god, but to accept the concept of a creator being.

Now, at this point we are left with what has been clogging my Facebook wall, and some of the postings of my conservative friends elsewhere. "Turning away from God." And invariably that means people are talking about gay marriage and women's reproductive rights.

I am a Libertarian and atheist. What this means is I believe in the fundamental rights of the individual, and that there is no creator being (I'd bomb out of freemasonry at this point on that score). So. Gay marriage? Your bible says no? Meh. The 14th amendment to the US Constitution says otherwise. Equality is the law of the land, and that means homosexuals should be as free to marry as anyone else. It's a secular institution in this country. Essentially a contract between to persons to co mingle assets and see to certain joint operations. Any religious ceremonies or compacts are handled through the church of your choice.

Now abortion is a stickier one because you can argue the rights of the unborn child all day long. I've decided to leave that up to the woman, as I am not the one carrying a child to term, nor am I responsible for bringing it to life. It is an individual choice and should be left to the individual.

Now, Obama has done a crap ton of screwed up things. The deficit, the bailouts, his disastrous foreign policy, and now his ideas about gun control.

But let's consider the flip side. Bush had horrible foreign policy. Romney supported something similar to Obamacare in Massachusetts. Bush started the bailout crap. Romney supports heavy gun control. So the way I'm seeing it, is from a practical standpoint NEITHER major political party, either through policies their prior president started, or that their current candidates espouse offer much. Meanwhile, Congress and the President are totally gridlocked and will not work with each other at all. This is not good. The idea of having our government structured the way it is, is so that there are checks and balances. But that requires cooperation. Not stubbornly refusing to work with the other person.

The last four years have been about ideals, not getting things done, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. And it won't until a large portion of this country stops freaking out about "OMG THE WRONG SIDE HAS THE WHITE HOUSE!" And drop the "God" crap. That cost the republicans more than anything else. The republicans have become increasingly hardcore fundamentalist Christian, and disturbingly anti science. This in turn leads to a degradation of human rights unless they align strictly with their version of the Christian bible.

The democrats have become increasingly socialist and disturbingly not caring about science or individual liberties. This in turn leads to a degradation of human rights unless their align strictly with their version of a glorious socialist utopia.

And yet, I have hope that after 8 years of Bush, and four more years of Obama, that perhaps this nation will finally have enough of radicals, and swing back to the middle where things are pretty damned. Good. Drop the God crap, and drop the Big Brother crap, and things will be a lot better.

[68 Ford Stepside]

I try to stay out of politics as I have enough problems of my own. To each his own, but I only have one more thing to say & I will shutup. I believe in my heart, body & soul that when america collapses & all the people are out in the streets rioting,killing & stealing our distinguished leaders will be on air force one headed for a muslim country. Behind air force one will be a hundred military helicopters hauling all the gold bars they can carry.

[jzjames]

18 months of drivel on TV is not enough for you guys?

[kf7mjf]

I am waiting for a chance to shoot down a gold carrying helicopter now. That will be awesome

[Ranchero50]

If you guys can maintain an intelligent discussion I'll leave this thread run for a while. However it looks like this one is heading for the gutter pretty quickly.

I'm kind of with Mr Rollings, I really don't care who wins, I just want them to make the hard decisions and get this country back on track. Sadly the older I get, the more I realize the whole election process seems to be broken.

The whole electoral college things time has passed. One persons vote really should one vote on the national ticker.

I also think there should be a media black out on election days so they can not influence the voters with their predictions.

Finally I feel that Americans got what they wanted again this election, not necessarily what they needed. The big 'issues' in my state were in state casino's, gay marriage and allowing illegal immigrants to have in state tuition... Something is broken

Hopefully it'll get better.

[basketcase0302]

The whole electoral college things time has passed. One persons vote really should one vote on the national ticker.

Could not have been said any better Jamie! A vote should be a vote-plain and simple.

[sargentrs]

My personal opinion is that there are just too many uninformed people out there who will vote for who has the best hairstyle, or the color of their skin, or what pretty words they say on the campaign trail without doing their homework on the candidates and reviewing their voting records and policies they've supported in their own states. The electoral college is SUPPOSED to represent the people in their region. If people want their electoral votes to mirror their opinions and sentiments then they have the obligation to put people into their local and state offices that will properly represent that sentiment. Those people ARE voted in by popular vote. Too many people want to ignore their state and local elections and just vote for president. It doesn't work like that folks. If you want the government to do what you think it should, then vote people into office that believe in what you do. Good, bad or indifferent, this is the system that we have and in order for the system to work, you have to work the system. Now, as for the state of the economy and big government, I have but one thing to say..............FAIR TAX!

[ultraranger]

It doesn't really matter what person is put into office, they don't (ultimately) control the destiny of a nation or its people --they can help accelerate it towards prosperity or destruction (when given the 'ok' to do so, either way), but they don't have ultimate, absolute, control over it. They are just the 'front men' or 'fall guys' to distract the blame to conceal the true root cause for the real source of the problems of the nation and its citizens.

The direction of a nation is controlled by he who controls the money. That would be those in control of the Federal Reserve, which is no more 'Federal' than Federal Express, and they do not have any "reserves". The Federal Reserve is nothing more than a cartel of the worlds wealthiest (private) bankers. Contrary to popular belief, the Federal Reserve System is NOT a government entity.

The Constitution states only Congress shall have the power to coin/print money, yet the (true) government does not. It is exclusively produced/controlled by the (non) Federal (no) Reserve --a private entity. The 'Fed' also controls inflation and deflation to manipulate the market and sustain perpetual debt of the citizens for the bankers of the FRS's continued profit. Bad economic situations are not consequential events. They are purposely engineered events.

http://www.apfn.org/APFN/reserve2.htm

[rltvader]

I thought this was interesting. Supposedly alot of republicans want a recount because of absentee ballots not being on time for soldiers to fill out. My friend thomas actually was one of these that didn't get to vote.
http://www.examiner.com/article/cast-as ... or-missing
http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/11/milit ... or-romney/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... tary-vote/

[68 Ford Stepside]

What is done is done. I like to forget bad memories & move on to another project.