Want some opinions...

[Calfdemon]

Looking for some outside feedback on something I am contemplating doing. I am not looking for opinions on which car is better or which one looks better or anything like that. I am just looking at value and whether you guys think I am making a dumb move or a worthwhile one.

I have had my 67 Firebird for 5 years now and it was about 75% restored when I got it. I bought it from my neighbor who started the frame off restoration and then had to sell it when he went to Iraq in 2007. I finished the restoration and have a little over $30k in the car now. That being said, I could probably sell it for close to $20k in today's market.

Here are a couple pics of the bird:




I haven't done anything on the bird for the past year because I have been putting all my attention towards the crew cab. I also am just not really motivated to do anything on the bird anymore and while I love the car, I have become bored with it to a point. Being a Ford guy at heart, I have been looking at 66-67 Fairlanes and have also always wanted a hot rod. I would LOVE to have a 32 Ford Tudor roadster, but I like all kinds of old Ford roadsters.

I have the opportunity to do a trade. There is an owner of a roadster that wants a 67-69 Camaro or Firebird because he is bored with his car and looking for a change. The guy has a 1927 Model T roadster that is completely built right. It has a small block Ford motor with a C4 transmission and is not a rat rod by any stretch of the imagination. The thing was put together right. Aside from the ugly color (its gotta be black) and the desperate need for the windshield to get chopped, there is not a whole lot to do to this car. The car is 100% original Henry Ford steel.

Here are some pics:









I know I have over $30k in my car and I value it in today's market at around $20k. He has probably about 25k into this roadster and he values it at around $20k also.... Do you guys think I am off my rocker to consider this trade? The muscle car marked fluctuates a bit and while it goes up, it does not go up nearly as fast as the old steel cars are going up. If my car was a numbers matching original, it would be worth more. But my car is a 400 clone since it was originally sold as a 326 car. While this is not an original 27 model T (I wouldnt want it if it was..) and has become a roadster, you can't even get an old rusted out body for under $2000 now-days. And even the rat-rods put together in a crappy manner are usually going for anywhere between 10k and 15k. Hell, the fiberglass repro cars are going for almost 10k. So I tend to think this car has value and it definitely wont go down in value. The car is 85 years old so finding a 1927 model T (last year of the T's) is getting harder and harder to do without a fat wallet.

Anyway... Just looking for opinions on the trade. Please give me reasons for your opinion as I am still feeling out this possible trade and any outside opinions are valued. Especially from here from a bunch of online buddies whose opinions I value! Thanks in advance for any input!

[crazyhorse]

Mr Demon, I can't tell you what to do.
I can tell what I would do . I would keep my car for now.
Something else might come along , you never know.

Good luck what ever you decide.

[basketcase0302]

Love the T and would trade in a heartbeat Rich, but gotta remember I bleed blue.
Real nice to see they didn't throw a SBC engine in the T as well.
Didn't that era have a "rumble seat" in the back?

[69Ford]

Here's what I think keep the bird and keep looking. I would get bored fairly quickly with the old ford. Not enough to do on it except drive it. I think you could find a fairlane in good shape and not restored for a decent price
And for me most of the fun would be restoration not just drive and park. Good luck and have fun.

[68 Ford Stepside]

As much as I love old hotrods, there is no way the firebird would be leaving my stable any time soon. The last big car show I attended had a passel of hotrods & one Firebird in the 9,000 cars that showed. No way could I ever tell another person what to do, but I wouldn't make the swap myself. Enjoy the Firebird & Have A Great Ford Day!

[DuckRyder]

I would keep the Firebird.

Which is not to say I would not trade it for something I wanted, I just wouldn't do that trade. Here is why:

• I suspect on the open market your firebird would sell much faster and probably for better money
• The T Bucket is yellow and you have already mentioned it.

I mean it is ALL yellow, think about how much work that is to change... You will have to take it completely apart. You will undoubtably find stuff that needs fixing during the process. Assuming the cars basically solid and you can do a good bit of the work $5000-10,000.00. So you have got $40,000.00 in a car that is worth what $20,000-25,000.00.

[sargentrs]

My vote's for the Firebird. The question would be intent. Do you intend to keep it and drive it occasionally or are you, potentially, going to resell it in the future. Being in California places you in a demographic where the roadster is practical however, in my neck of the woods, the T bucket would see very little air time due to the weather constraints. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the Firebird not being "numbers matching" as I've seen restomods on Barrett Jackson and Meacham's go for prime dollar too. I feel, that for resale potential, the Firebird would reach a much broader market and the convertible top makes is highly desirable in all parts of the country. When I think "muscle car" the '67-'72 era Camaros, Firebirds, Road Runners, Torinos, Mustangs, Cuda's, Challengers, AMX, Super Bee, GTX, etc signify the golden age in America. For me, it's about the build, not so much the finished project. If I was bored with it, I'd sell it and buy another project car in good condition and use the money to make a supreme machine. Just my

[jimmy828]

I used to have a 67 firebird in the late seventies and sure wish i had it back. When i had it, a car was just a car. A way of transportation to do the wild activities i i used to do. 38 years later and all the cars i've owned since then, i'm still thinking of that ole 67 bird. I'm like the others on here, keep the firebird. I would think it would be more valuable than the ole bucket. Heck, keep the bird and still look for a Fairlane to work on!

[Ranchero50]

I'd go the T and lose the 302 for a flathead. I would not change the color or mess with it otherwise.

[Calfdemon]

I appreciate everyone chiming in on this. Good points were brought up by all but I will clarify my position at this point a little further...

I am not looking to buy for resale purposes. I want my "toy" car as something I can drive and enjoy, which is exactly what I have done with the Firebird for the past 5 years. Living in SoCal, not having a top on a car is not a problem as I can still drive it most of the year and can always garage it and/or cover it when it is raining. I can always end up getting a removable convertible hotrod top for the T bucket as well and probably would if I got it. In SoCal, the top is actual more useful for extreme hot weather conditions, as opposed to possible rain or bad weather elsewhere in the country.

I understand the position of "used to have that car and wish I had it back". That usually happens when you did not fully appreciate the car when you had it and then years later try to find another to relive that time. The old "don't know what you got until it's gone" thing... Only difference here is I do fully appreciate the Firebird for what it is and have completely enjoyed restoring it and driving it. But I want something different now. In a perfect world, I would just keep the bird and get something new as well. But unfortunately, I don't have the finances (or garage space) to have a Jay Leno collection.

As for the changing the color on the T bucket, yeah, that would be a lot of work and I would have to take the car apart to do it. But that is part of the charm for me here.. I am pretty much done with the Firebird.. there is a small list of things I still wanted to do, but for the most part, the car is there. If I had the T bucket, the paint is the reason that I would have to take the car completely apart (which would help me learn it from front to back) and then put it back together. I would not have to worry about bodywork, rust, or finding parts for the car unless there is something I really wanted to change, but there is enough there to keep me busy and make the car into what I want. The other bonus to this is there is not a whole lot to the car, so taking it apart and putting it back together is pretty simple.

I realize that muscle cars and old hotrods are two completely different animals and appeal to different groups of people. I happen to like both. Most my age (42) fall into the muscle car category because that's what we remember more predominately when we were younger. The majority of the older hotrod generation are getting up there in age and the younger generations might not have as much desire to own one, but I am fairly certain that there will always be a market for them.

I guess what I am uncertain about is if the trade appears pretty much equal. While I am not looking to resell the T, I also do not want to lose what current market value I have in the bird, so I want to make sure it would not be a step down. I know there are pros and cons to owning both, and someone that has had neither can easily say which car they would prefer. I am in the position of "been there, done that" with the Firebird and looking at the T bucket as a change with new work to be done. And luckily the car is in top shape that I can immediately drive and enjoy it while I finish the Crew Cab. Once the crew is done, then I can start on making the T exactly what I want.

I guess that is why the trade appeals to me at this point, if that makes any sense. I just want to make sure I am not making a dumb move in value out of my "wants" in a new project...

[Calfdemon]

As much as I love old hotrods, there is no way the firebird would be leaving my stable any time soon. The last big car show I attended had a passel of hotrods & one Firebird in the 9,000 cars that showed. No way could I ever tell another person what to do, but I wouldn't make the swap myself. Enjoy the Firebird & Have A Great Ford Day!

You don't have to tell me about the rarity of the 1st gen Firebirds. I know that all too well. I have another buddy with a 67 bird also and when we go to shows, we are usually the only 2 birds and there are usually 25+ Camaros.. I can't tell you how many shows I have been to where I was the only bird. But, I have also won something at most of the regular shows that I go to which makes me not want to go to those shows anymore with the Bird. This is another reason I am looking for something new, so I can go to the shows in my area with something different to put in them.

I think another factor in wanting to get something different is the paint on the Firebird is going to need to be done again in a few years. I have already built this car once before and if I am going to take a car apart to paint it, I want something different. Otherwise it is just building the same car over again.

[DuckRyder]

Lets see some pictures of the Firebird interior and engine.

Judging from what I see, my gut is that the Firebird is worth more.

Some things on the T that I notice are drum brakes, lever shocks, exhaust manifolds, (is exhaust plain or stainless), the trim ring on the ignition and speedometer appear to have corrosion, rubber mat, mismatched interior(?). Perhaps these are stylistic choices, or perhaps cost cutting. You say the car is built right but these things would make it less marketable to me and less marketable means worth less even if you aren't looking to turn it.

IT IS cool that it is a Ford motor and with a refinish and some minor tweaks I think it would be super cool (Thinking a shelby 2x4 intake a couple of reproduction shelby air cleaners and 65 hi po 289 style chrome covers, paint it black and change the wheels lose all the yellow).

In the end, trying to make monetary sense out of emotional decisions rarely works out so if you aren't looking to turn it and it makes you happy then I think you have your answer.

[flyboy2610]

I sounds to me like you simply don't want the Firebird anymore. In that case, there is no reason to keep it. Swap it for the T-bucket, and have some fun!

[Calfdemon]

Lets see some pictures of the Firebird interior and engine.

Judging from what I see, my gut is that the Firebird is worth more.

I don't have any pics of the motor at my fingertips at the moment and I don't have any current pics of the interior on this computer either. The motor is a Pontiac 400 with the highly desirable 670 heads. It has an Edelbrock performer manifold, valve covers, and air cleaner. The motor is very clean, but could use a new coat of paint. No grease or grime to speak of as I keep the engine bay very clean.

As for interior, here are a couple pics from a few years ago before I was done. The interior is still in the same condition with the addition of a stock 67 radio and radio bezel:

I sounds to me like you simply don't want the Firebird anymore. In that case, there is no reason to keep it. Swap it for the T-bucket, and have some fun!

To be honest, I am torn. I like the Firebird but don't love it the way I used to and I have just about gone as far with it as I want to go. I really like the T bucket, but the way it is, I don't love it (but I see the potential in it). Like I said, if I could get something different without getting rid of the bird, I would. But I have to give to receive. And since the T bucket is not 100% how I want it and would take some work (which i don't mind doing), I am second guessing myself. I am basically giving up a 99% done car for one that I feel the need to make significant changes to. While this is part of the lure, I also don't want to take a bath.

Now, if I was able to trade for this: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ct ... 54023.html

or this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-For ... 5272wt_896

I wouldn't even be here asking others opinions as I love both of those cars. I would jump at either of those 2. I would keep the 32 pretty much how it is, and the Fairlane is almost there and just needs some TLC. Unfortunately, the guy with the 32 wants something a bit older than the bird, and the Fairlane is on consignment and the owner needs to sell. I have already contacted both with fingers crossed..

[Calfdemon]

The more I read here, the more I am tempted to just hold on to what I have until something else comes along... This is why I did this. When you own something and see it every day, you don't appreciate it for what it is as much. It kind of "dulls" to you. The perspective of others really helps shed light on the situation and makes you take a look at it with fresh eyes again.

I really do appreciate the feedback and keep it coming either way. I still am not completely decided and some of what you guys have pointed out to me really has helped!