Booster and MC for 69 F100

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yabadaba
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Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by yabadaba »

Guys, the previous owner did a front disc brake conversion on my 69 F100. He said he used spindles from a 70's F150. The brakes work okay but have always been a bit soft and seem a little under-powered. This makes me think that possibly the MC and booster weren't changed and are for drum brakes...also the booster looks the same as images of the A1 Cardone 1969 drum brake booster that is on Rock Auto.

Anyway, the booster has now developed a leak. so I think now is the time to make sure I have the correct MC/booster combo for discs by ordering the A1 Cardone 503009 combo. This is the one that Rock Auto list for mid 70's F100's and F150's with front disc brakes. So, do you think this will be the correct MC/booster for me....will it fit okay?

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php ... &jsn=10830

Here's what's currently on my truck....brake lines going in the wrong side I think so possibly not the original MC?

Thanks for any advice or comments....

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ultraranger
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by ultraranger »

Brake components are designed by brake engineers to go together as a complete system for any given vehicle. However, if you break it down into simplistic terms, a brake booster is just a force multiplier. It has no idea what type of brakes you have (drum/drum, disc/drum or discs/disc) nor does it have any clue what style MC you are running.

A single diaphragm, or, a more powerful dual diaphragm brake booster, is going to generate a certain amount of force against the MC, dependant on the total surface area of the booster diaphragm(s), the amount of vacuum signal on the booster and by how much force the driver is applying on the brake pedal.

From there, it will depend on the bore diameter of the MC as to how much output pressure the MC places on the brake components, by how much force the driver is applying to the brake pedal.

Your booster is the single diaphragm style, as opposed to a dual diaphragm. The stock bore diameter for that MC should be 1.00" but, someone could have installed anything on it. Smaller bore diameter MCs will produce more output pressure for the same amount of force placed on the brake pedal, but will displace less fluid volume. The trade-off is the total pedal travel will increase.

A larger bore MC will move more fluid volume but, it will produce less output pressure. A larger bore MC will generally have a much firmer pedal, a lack of feel for brake modulation, less forward brake pedal travel and is likely to make it difficult to put enough force on the pedal to get the vehicle to stop within a reasonable distance.

I would check the engine vacuum to make sure you're getting a vacuum signal to the booster of 18"-20" inches Hg. Less than this and the booster will not operate at its maximum output potential. I would also adjust the brake drum shoes out and verify that there's no residual air in the brake system.

If all this is done or checks out, the only way to increase the output of the MC is to drop down in bore diameter. If you have a 1.00" bore, you may have to go to a 15/16" MC bore diameter.

Another alternative is to replace the single diaphragm brake booster with a more powerful dual diaphragm unit. It will be a direct swap with your existing firewall brackets. If this is the route taken, you'll likely have to go up in MC bore diameter so that the brakes don't become overly sensitive to the application of the brake pedal --something on the order of a 1-1/16" MC bore diameter.

This is a '75 F350 dual diaphragm brake booster in my '69 F100 short bed Ranger with a 1-1/16" bore '95 Explorer MC. I have '77 F100 discs on the front and stock '69 drums in the rear. This setup works very well, whereas, the brakes used to really suck.

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Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
yabadaba
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by yabadaba »

Thanks for the detailed reply...some interesting info there...appreciated.
Coolmee1
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by Coolmee1 »

I just pickup a cardone 50-3112 will this work in my 69 f100 all drum. It's a duel diaphragm with a 1 1/4 in. Mc
ultraranger
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by ultraranger »

Coolmee1 wrote:I just pickup a cardone 50-3112 will this work in my 69 f100 all drum. It's a duel diaphragm with a 1 1/4 in. Mc
That's the exact same booster I'm running on my '69 F100. That is also the same MC bore diameter that was on the booster when I pulled them from the '75 F350 donor truck.

You can try the dual diaphragm with the 1-1/4" bore MC but, don't be surprised if you don't like the way the brakes act with 4-wheel drums. Braking would be much better if the front drums were replaced with discs and a tweak of the MC (go down in MC bore diameter).
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
Coolmee1
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by Coolmee1 »

Thank you for the info. Will I be happier with a 1 inch bore. I can get one of those and Then get the duel diaphragm as separate parts. I was just going to get booster load not unloaded for the ease of install. Thank again for the great advice.
ultraranger
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by ultraranger »

I installed that style booster on my truck with a 1.00" MC, when I still had drums all the way around. The brakes were very sensitive. Drums are self-energizing, discs aren't.

A 1-1/4" MC bore is likely too big and a 1.00" MC (with all wheel drums) is too small (with a dual diaphragm booster). A MC around 1-1/16" bore would likely be better for the powerful dual diaphragm booster with all-wheel drums. --if you later converted to front discs, the 1-1/16" MC would already be in place.

The MC on the booster/MC combo is a rebuilt unit. I never recommend using a rebuilt MC. They just don't have a good track record for lasting very long. It's always best to use a brand new MC. There was a conventional cast iron 1-1/16" bore diameter MC used on the later ('78/'79) F250 and F350 Dentsides, if you are looking for a cast iron MC instead of a 'modern' MC like I'm running on my truck.
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
yabadaba
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by yabadaba »

Well my A1 Cardone 503009 arrived today and I don't think it's going to be any good....not necessarily in terms of having a well matched bore size, but due to its diameter.

It's approx 2" wider than the existing booster so may not actually fit....and even if it does it will be right up against the valve cover meaning that whenever I want to renew valve cover gaskets I would need to remove the booster! Unless, possibly it is designed to attach directly to the firewall, which would take the bracket out of the equation and then it just might sit behind the valve cover.
yabadaba
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by yabadaba »

Ultraranger, I might just copy your setup. Please can you let me know the approx. diameter of your Booster and also let me know exactly which MC you selected? I can see many listed for 95 Explorers on Rock Auto.....I guess one listed for WITHOUT cruise, but then would I want with or without proportioning valve? I can see what I assume is a proportioning valve or perhaps just a distribution block sitting lower down on the frame beneath the booster.....keep this in place, or go for the MC that comes with a proportioning valve?
ultraranger
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by ultraranger »

yabadaba wrote:Ultraranger, I might just copy your setup. Please can you let me know the approx. diameter of your Booster and also let me know exactly which MC you selected? I can see many listed for 95 Explorers on Rock Auto.....I guess one listed for WITHOUT cruise, but then would I want with or without proportioning valve? I can see what I assume is a proportioning valve or perhaps just a distribution block sitting lower down on the frame beneath the booster.....keep this in place, or go for the MC that comes with a proportioning valve?
My booster is O'Reilly part number 54-73112. The MC is NAPA part number M3246, without cruise control and without proportioning valve. My brake valve is for an '84-'86 Ford F150/Bronco. It replaced my old drum/drum pressure differential valve that was mounted inside the left frame rail, directly behind the steering gear box.
Steve

1969 SWB F100 Ranger. 240-6, C-4, 9" N-case 31-spline Traction-Lok w/3.50 gears.

1968 Mustang. My high school car. Owned since 1982.

2003 Azure Blue Mustang Mach1.
Coolmee1
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by Coolmee1 »

I want to say thank you for all your help and patience. I would have put in something that I would have had to change it later when I put on my discs on. Local junkyard has a couple of trucks with all the parts it's just recently opened to the public as a pull your own parts place $50 for everything. Just have to wait for them to lift the truck out of the sand.
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Craigerf100
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by Craigerf100 »

Just thought I share
Last edited by Craigerf100 on Tue May 17, 2016 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
1964 F-100 Custom Cab Short Bed
1968 F-100 Short Bed
1967 Fairlane 500 Convertable
1967 Fairlane GT/A 289ci SOLD
1950 F-1 Original 239ci Flat Head V8 SOLD
1995 f-150 4x4 Swb 4.9L 5-speed FORSALE

My Build: :fr: http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... &sk=t&sd=a
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Craigerf100
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Re: Booster and MC for 69 F100

Post by Craigerf100 »

Hey I went with this setup.
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A early 90s explorer MC, new universal dual diaphragm booster, adjustable brake push rod and I used the oem booster brackets.
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Did the same set up on my dads 64, minus the explorer MC but I did find a new single MC not remand. I also used new universal booster brackets.

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And for each set up I payed maybe a $100 for everything. If you're interested hit me up, I'd be happy to tell u how I did it and where I got the parts.

But the reason why I'm not running a remand MC and booster is because I did on my 68 f100'and a 67 fairlane. And both suuuucked (pic bellow) In short, remand products are hit or miss if u find a good one. Not to mention a remand booster is waaaay $70 easy compared to $40 new. Plus remand old technology isnt as good as new.
Image
1964 F-100 Custom Cab Short Bed
1968 F-100 Short Bed
1967 Fairlane 500 Convertable
1967 Fairlane GT/A 289ci SOLD
1950 F-1 Original 239ci Flat Head V8 SOLD
1995 f-150 4x4 Swb 4.9L 5-speed FORSALE

My Build: :fr: http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... &sk=t&sd=a
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