OT - OBDII readiness rant...

[amishbuggy]

Have you tried posting your problem at Batauto.com? I have been helped out many times in their forums.

[dbarker]

You guys have inspections still? that sucks.

Oklahoma did away with them in 2001. Now so long as your car operates safely you're fine. IF you get pulled over and its painfully obvious your car wouldnt pass OHP can and WILL do a field inspection.

That said, I saw a car with no lights, no wipers, straight pipes sticking out behind the front tires, smog equip stripped off, and not only was it loud, but you could smell the thing for miles. It was leaving a dense cloud of oil smoke behind it. Guess what... it passed. but just barely...

[NM5K]

I didn't realize Oklahoma didn't have them.. But.. I don't really pay
much attention to what stickers are on cars.
That smoky car wouldn't be on the road long here in Tejas.
Sure wouldn't pass inspection with the various infractions.
I was up in OK last weekend for about 4 days. I've got some
land near Eufaula that I use as my recreational living center.
I have to get away from the cement city every once in a while.

My truck has to pass inspection, but no emissions.
My car, they just plug that thing up to the puter and probe
it's memory banks for drips, runs, or errors. :/
The truck is about $12.50 a year.. The car about $39.99 a year
for inspection cuz it has the emissions test.

[Oren09]

Texas inspections are a pain. My dad's car failed once because of a small hole in the brake light lens.

Montana doesn't do inspections

[DuckRyder]

We only have the emission inspection in the metro counties surrounding Atlanta because of EPA air quality, on OBD 2 cars they just plug the car in and if and it has to pass readiness, no DTC's, MIL command and a gas cap test. I really don't have a problem with it but I do have a problem with this stupid car...

No actual equipment inspections (they stopped that in the 70's) other than checking the catalytic converter and a very cursory under hood inspection for emissions equipment...

Anyway, I've been arms deep in a Taurus for 2 days and Kat has driven the Acura to school to see if it would set after a few more miles with a different driver... no joy.

My friend who is apparently at least part owner of the Acura Dealership it was sold and serviced at says to clean the EGR ports and replace the front O2 sensors.

Still have to call crewcabfan...

[NM5K]

Actually, I was leaning to the back O2 sensor.. Why? cuz you said it was flatlining..
I've never seen a O2 sensor that flatlined after being warm enough to work..
Almost gives me the impression it's tango uniform.. But I'd look farther into that
before just changing it out.. I might be missing something being it's the back "verify
it's clean" sensor so to speak..
The EGR ports are a good idea. Even if that's not the problem, you'll know they
are clean. EGR helps lower combustion temps. If it's not working, temps can climb
and the NOX score will crank thru the roof. I've had to live with all this emissions test
mess for several years.. maybe over a decade. I forgot when it all started, but it was
a while back. So in that time, I had to get fairly well versed on emissions systems if
I wanted my older cars to pass.
I had to do work on my older 81 Monte Carlo to pass. I finally got it running real
clean. The last Honda Accord I had liked to blow high NOX scores, and I had to do
some battle with it to get it through the tests.
To me, a lack of going to "ready" should mean a lack of sensor feedback from
one of the parts. And it could well be one of the O2 sensors even if it's not showing
a "check engine" error code for it. Or maybe some other sensor or part is dead and
not giving it the feedback it needs to complete the ready. So it's stuck chasing it's tail.
:/
But, that's just my theory so far..
I even considered the ECU, but being as it's partially working, I think it's more
than likely good. It's just missing some feedback to complete the ready state.
I think... Maybe the heater "if needed" for the back O2 is out.. ???

[DuckRyder]

More later, but:

I thought the after cat rear sensor should pretty much flatline lean because that is how it knows the cat is working, if the rear sensor is toggling like the front ones then the cat is not working?

I do know the EGR ports were cleaned on it, they had a special policy and actually pulled the intakes and cleaned them, but it was a good while ago, they (the monitor) are apparently watching the MAP during coast to see if the EGR is working and obviously on the O2 they are looking for the O2 to cross center x number of times during x number of seconds, trouble is I can't find what "x" is and my scanner doesn't count them or update fast enough...

[NM5K]

Yep, after looking into it a bit, that seems to be the case. I was thinking the rear O2 would toggle, and
the puter would use the average of the reading, but it seems you are right, and the rear sensor
should be fairly stable and run .45 volts or higher. Center normally is considered around .45 volts,
with the peaks around .8 and the dips around .2 volts. Try using a voltmeter to measure the counts.
You can usually see them. The best way is with a scope, but not that many have those. I do myself
though.. Have two of them. But you can also see the swings on my Simpson digital voltmeter.
Most analog meters can see them too I think as long as the meter movement is fast enough.
BTW, in my checking, OBDII has O2 heater checking and should show a error code if one of the
heaters fail. So in theory, that should rule out it being a dead heater being as you show no code.

[67camper]

I was flipping thru my obdII book and found some stuff that could prevent the o2 monitor from runnin. it said
certain segments of the fuel system monitor may be running,
misfire detected but no code stored,
upstream o2 sensor or o2 heater failure detected but no code stored.
Also the o2 monitor should be one of the first to run, hope it helps man

[binder56jd]

good stuff nm---late 80's-early 90's for dfw and surrounding muni's

[DuckRyder]

Haven't really been able to mess much with it, I'm not home for the weekend, we are driving it while Katherine works Crew at the 2010 Susan G Komen 3 day.

It still isn't ready, I took a quick scope trace of the O2's

The red line is B1S2
The green line is B1S1
The yellow is B2S1

This is idling.



Larger Image

The Map seems to be responding:

98 kPa KOEO (Baro) ~ .97 atmosphere
40 kPa KOER (Man Vac) ~ 18 inHG - Gauge
92 KPa Blip (Man Vac) ~ 2 inHG - Gauge

I just don't see anything wrong here, and I agree the O2 monitor should be one of the first to run.

Many of the Honda specific boards that relate to the O2 monitor not ready seem to advise replacing the battery with a Honda battery (this one is an interstate)

[j41385]

I Honestly dont think many people where I live have even heard of a smog test, let alone an inspection. It seems dumb to be required to pay someone to inspect your vehicle, when it is part of the basic dmv manual every 15 year old kid reads when they get a permit that you need to make sure your car is in working order before you drive. I had never heard of such nonsense, before talking to folks online.

[bobsgarage]

This is why I own all Fords and Indiana no longer has State required inspections..

[rjewkes]

Recently had a ford throught both upstream O2's lean condition, a vaccum line going to the intake ffuel and air cleaner later and it is running fine and nothings wrong now.

also when the battery was replaced, if the connected the new one ground first they may have ruined the ECU/ECM or any of the sensors i have always been warned about that in Computer controlled cars.

Have you tried the computer reset of unhooking the battery for 1/2 to 1 hr and then re hooking it up. worst case is you have to reprogram the clock and radio, and still have the problem.

[DuckRyder]

I'll have to check the scale, I believe each segment is 1 sec though, I'll try to verify.

I have not actually disconnected the battery, although I did clear the codes - I'm not sure disconnecting the battery would do anything different but I guess I'm willing to give it a shot.

I also have not registered on any other forums, although I think I've read nearly every thread related to OBD readiness on most Honda forums...It seems at least 2 cases replacing the battery with a Honda one has cured failure to set the O2 and Catalyst monitors even in one case the car had a fairly new interstate as does my car. It does seen to be pulling about .5 volts lower on my DVOM that the van and Civic. (~10.1v) when starting.

I'm going to clean the EGR today and in light of a misfire possibly keeping the monitor from running take a look at the plugs and call crewcabfan. I guess my list of things to try goes something like this:

Clean EGR
Replace Plugs
Replace Battery with Honda
Replace O2 sensors

About the rear O2, It was my understanding that it should be lean, ~.45 should be stoichiometric and if the Cat is doing its job the mixture after the cat should be oxygen rich, also it does toggle on a cold start. I need to take another look at the long term fuel trim, but It wasn't out of whack...

I'm believing that Crew cab is right and something is keeping the monitors from running, so if any one has access to any documentation that would tell us what things would keep the O2, Catalyst and EGR monitors from running I'd love to hear it.

It has had nearly 1000 more miles on it since I set the code and had to clear it, so I'm pretty well convinced that driving it more is not going to help...It never has an pending codes or current codes (except when you unplug the CTS with the key on...)