1968 Mercury 250 Camper Special

[cdnwillyg]

Yes that was the oil, all out now!
You're right I will need to run new oil a few times to clean up the oiling system. Pressure test good idea why didn't I think of that thanks DR. I'll do that first before adding the oil.

[popeyes71]

Yeah, the color and amount of water in your oil makes me very suspicious there could be a bigger problem. Like duckryder mentioned, I would pressure test the cooling system first to get an idea of the condition of the water system and then go from there. Keep us posted!

[Ranchero50]

I'd still heat some of the mud up on the stove until the water vapor steams off and see what it smells like. Hard to say if the truck wasn't just pushed outside during the money squabble and got rained on. It may, or may not be a big deal.

[hfdco4]

I hate to say this, but I would pull the engine and go through it.

[cdnwillyg]

I went and got the parts I think I need to at least get it running again.
I'm planning on replacing all the oil gallery plugs and cam cover.
Talked with a Brian from The Block Shop engine rebuild place and he advised I use a little sealant on all the cups once installed and highly recommended pinning of the cups. Their method is get the cups flush and then cross pin with a chisel at right angles.
He agreed that I need to flush the oil system and then try and determine if there is a water leak issue.
He said because of the amount of water he doesn't think it's a head gasket but that I should watch on the first compression test stroke to see if its initial jump is to 80-90 psi. If it takes a few compression strokes to get up there then suspect a bad head gasket on one or more cylinders adjacent to one another.
He also didn't think it would be an intake manifold gasket either very rare but he has seen where the timing gasket is on a pores surface or is pitted badly and then water would leak straight into the oil pan. But at looking at that I would think one would see an external leak from the water pump...at least on my block. As for internal block crack he thought that would be remote.
He said to pressurize the cooling system prior to installing new oil to see if it will hold pressure but unlikely it would identify where the leak is.
He tried to stay positive during our discussion which I appreciated but also mentioned it would be $4500 to redo the engine if it came to that.
He even thought he might have a good block if by chance the worse happened and the block was toast!
I do appreciate all the helpful comments on here and even the opinions that think I should take it out and rebuild it which has crossed my mind twice now. But I would like to see if this engine can be saved and not knowing the real history think this is all worth it even if it has to come out.
Did I mention it ran awesome for 4-5 minutes!!
I will get after this tomorrow, need to rest this old body as taking the tranny out was tough enough yesterday and it going back in will be even more stressful.
Sure on a steep learning curve here.

[hfdco4]

I would run a compression test and leak down test. This will be an easy way to see the condition of the block and head gaskets without running the engine or adding any water. Another simple test would be to pressurize each cylinder with about 80psi of air pressure and listen for leaks. You could also pressurize the cooling system to see if its leaking into the oil. These are tests that may save you time and money. Not sure what kind of tool access you have.

Good luck and hope it turns out to be an easy fix!

[Ranchero50]

I would run a compression test and leak down test. This will be an easy way to see the condition of the block and head gaskets without running the engine or adding any water. Another simple test would be to pressurize each cylinder with about 80psi of air pressure and listen for leaks. You could also pressurize the cooling system to see if its leaking into the oil. These are tests that may save you time and money. Not sure what kind of tool access you have.

Good luck and hope it turns out to be an easy fix!

Trans is out, needs a bell that matches the flywheel to get it running or even turning over again to do the tests. I'm torn between pressurizing the coolant side or the crankcase and see if you get air flow out the other side. I would not install the trans until the engine is sorted. Too much pain.

Reading the OP's last post I'm also pretty sure the engine builder isn't very familiar with Ford FE's since there's no way coolant can get to the crank case at the water pump. At this point I'm thinking pull the intake as a troubleshooting step and look for gross gasket misalignment or something else really dumb like dirt allowing the coolant to flow into the crankcase. That's the easiest spot to get a coolant leak. Bad thing is the paint is in good shape so you're almost better off yanking the engine out and giving it $100 worth of head and intake gaskets along with new freeze plugs.

[cdnwillyg]

The plan tomorrow has changed a bit, as my mechanic buddy called and agrees with you Ranchero50. He said before I put the trans back in, to do a coolant pressure test to see if that reveals anything and to pull the plug on the oil pan to watch if coolant ends up coming out. The truck has had the coolant level remain the same from when I first added from about a week ago in the rad. Has not changed even when I blew the oil gallery cap out so that gives me a little hope , although only under pressure for the time it was running all of maybe 3-4 minutes.
The good thing is the wife is really sympathetic and hasn't said too much about the truck using her parking spot in the garage while its been -10-15 C outside.

[DuckRyder]

There is something sticking in the back of my head about some of the core plugs in the FE being an odd (and hard to find) size, but i can’t recall which they are, worth doing a little research on.

Also, threading the block for screw in plugs is a common upgrade, if it comes down to disassembling the engine you might want to do that as well...

If it has the blue Fel-Pro “PermaTorque” intake gaskets they are notorious - use ANYTHING but those. If you can get Victor Reinz use those.

I’m of mixed feelings on this, I would do some testing and looking around, but I would be prepared to pull the engine and go through it.

[cdnwillyg]

I got the plug set including all the frost plugs from the Block shop so hopefully they are the right ones. It may come down to rebuilding it is going to be my only option. Should know what direction I'll be going by end of today. If no leaks when I pressurize the cooling system then I will gamble and reassemble tranny to engine and see what happens.
The cost will be the same, just time will be a lot more and being retired I seem to have that part of the equation covered.

[Ranchero50]

Did you cook any of your old oil yet?

[cdnwillyg]

Ranchero50 I had no oil to cook, it all got dumped over the floor. What would that have told me?
I did the pressure test on the cooling system today for 5 hrs. and here are the results,...wait for it!!!!
Pressure at the start:

20171110_130058.jpg

5 hrs. later and crank rotated as well:

20171110_131412.jpg

So I'm pretty happy with those results and am in the process of reinstalling the tranny.
I installed just the 1 oil gallery plug and pinned the rest and applied a little sealant afterwards. Just didn't want to end up punching one of the plugs into the engine.
Also I now remember the owner telling me that the restoration guy did have an issue with the intake so...... my thinking is maybe he fixed the intake but never drained the oil..not good but it does explain this somewhat.
Feeling pretty good about everything but I know this could still go south in a hurry if there is water damage on any of the bearings,cam, etc. but if there is then a rebuild will still need to happen either way....rolling the dice here.

[Ranchero50]

Ranchero50 I had no oil to cook, it all got dumped over the floor. What would that have told me?

Well, if there was coolant in the oil you would have smelt the antifreeze. If it was water you wouldn't have. Since you don't know the history we are still guessing as how the oil got milky. Your 11/5 post said there was discoloration on the dipstick and you later said you got @ 3 quarts of water out before the oil. The dipstick reads 4 quarts when it's showing min level so that's plausible. 3 quarts low on coolant in the radiator. Usually leaks show up when the engine is warm so it's hard to value your gauge readings. They mean it's not horrible, but don't mean it's OK either. The reading is a 'levels of bad' kind of thing. Not horrible, not totally reassuring.

Also as a side note, when I've flooded engine with good green coolant it comes out of the pan green at first, especially if it's sat for a while.

[hfdco4]

We are all praying with you

[cdnwillyg]

Ranchero50 your question about coolant in the oil made me think and I remembered I did keep the coolant that came out initially to measure the amount. So I just went and looked to see what it looked like. Here is a pic and its only good to -15C. It is fairly clear of oil and is green!

20171110_195119.jpg

You can see the muddy oil floating on top.