390FE (406ci) for #50, built by Tom Lucas at FE Specialties.

[robroy]

Good day!

This thread is a continuation of the discussion started in What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine? If you didn't follow this previous thread, you may wish to review it--it provides the complete context for this thread.

While What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine? discussed both the old, problematic engine and this new engine, this thread will focus solely on the new engine. The ongoing discussion on the problematic, old engine will continue here: Proformance Unlimited 390FE for #50: a complete disaster. Thanks!

Here's an illustration that explains our organization method (click on this image if it's difficult to see):



On Friday I spoke with Tom again regarding the new engine! I heard these updates:

1. He ordered the camshaft (Crower hydraulic, roller cam with 212 Intake, 228 Exhaust, and 050 Duration).
2. He ordered the pistons (428-sized Diamond pistons).
3. Based on the final specifications for the engine, the Dyno 2000 software's updated performance fore cast is 410 horsepower at 5,000 RPM, and 520 ft/lbs at 2,500 RPM.
4. The "105 Mirror" engine block is being prepared by a machinist already!

I asked Tom about how accurate he thought the latest Dyno 2000 software estimates were. He said that based on his experience with comparing the software results with the physical dyno, the horsepower specification should be just about exactly right, while the torque fore cast could be a little high.

I'm expecting a quote from Tom early next week that will include many details. As soon as I get that I'll post it here!

Thanks very much for all the excellent advice I've received up 'til now!
Robroy

[Ranchero50]

Jamie

[hazelnut]

Sorry to hear about your 390 but glad to hear about your new 406. I guess your going to have to buy new 406 fender badges for your truck now

[70_F100]

Have you given any more thought to actually having the engine dyno-tested and dyno-tuned?

[eggman918]

Have you given any more thought to actually having the engine dyno-tested and dyno-tuned?

what would that cost?

[70_F100]

I'm not sure, but I think Robroy looked into that and got a price.

It was included somewhere in the original thread, but that one's a little too long now to go back and find it without a lot of reading what I've already read several times before!!

[robroy]

Good evening Jamie, Hazelnut, 70_F100, and Eggman918, thanks for your great replies!

Thanks for your ongoing interest!

Sorry to hear about your 390 but glad to hear about your new 406. I guess your going to have to buy new 406 fender badges for your truck now

Yeah! Hmmm. 406 fender badges! I suppose it's still called a 390 (that's what Tom calls it), since it uses a 390 crankshaft.

Have you given any more thought to actually having the engine dyno-tested and dyno-tuned?

After hearing that the cost was around $1,000, I decided against this. While I'm sure it's worth it to somebody who wants to win a drag race, I have a hunch that $1,000 could be spent better on other parts of the truck, like wider rear tires or a limited slip rear end.

what would that cost?

The price was around $1,000--maybe a little less. It's a lot of work! Tom actually rents a facility with a big dyno machine, and runs the engine on it all day, continuously re-tuning it until he gets the best performance. It's not just a one-shot deal to measure its initial performance.

It was included somewhere in the original thread, but that one's a little too long now to go back and find it without a lot of reading what I've already read several times before!!

Yeah it got pretty long there! Hopefully now that we've branched that thread in to one per subject, it will be easier to follow (and search through later on).

Jamie, Hazelnut, 70_F100, and Eggman918, thanks again for your excellent replies!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

We should dispatch a reporter over there to take pictures of all the shiny new parts.

My Crower Roller and HIPPO lifters were almost to pretty to seal up in the engine, they were suitable for framing...

[robroy]

Good morning Robert, thanks for writing!

We should dispatch a reporter over there to take pictures of all the shiny new parts.

Good thinking! Now that you mention it, I remember that Tom mentioned he would take photos of stuff as it went together. This said, naturally his main priority is doing a superb job on the engine, not on taking award-winning photos! The cost of my trip to see Tom, including gas and wear-and-tear on the car, is between $100 and $200 (both directions included).

My Crower Roller and HIPPO lifters were almost to pretty to seal up in the engine, they were suitable for framing...

Yes I'll bet they were! Well thanks for warning me about this. I'll see if there's a way to get some extra photos of these parts!

Thanks again Robert!
Robroy

[kyle ray]

this is an amazing saga that you have informed us about. Sorry to hear about all the problems. I had actually found proformance engines on the internet long before your problems and had saved their site to my favorites,they are now deleted and i have FE Specialties saved now. I may never purchase a crate engine but if i do the info you have provided is worth gold. I cant wait to see and hear your truck run. it will be exciting for everyone here. Good luck and Merry CHRISTmas

[robroy]

Good evening Kyle, thanks for writing!

this is an amazing saga that you have informed us about. Sorry to hear about all the problems.

Thank you! I'm glad to know that it's entertaining to read through!

I had actually found proformance engines on the internet long before your problems and had saved their site to my favorites,they are now deleted and i have FE Specialties saved now.

Based on everything I've found and reported in this specific instance, that's an understandable move to make. I suppose I could say more on this subject, but I'll reserve that for a future post to Proformance Unlimited 390FE for #50: a complete disaster. As for adding FE Specialties to your Favorites, that seems like a smart idea!

I may never purchase a crate engine but if i do the info you have provided is worth gold.

Thanks! Yes I suppose it's quite rare for a brand new crate engine to be pulled completely apart like this, so the information I've revealed isn't usually available. And Tom is such a good sport when it comes to making video recordings! It's quite a stroke of luck.

I cant wait to see and hear your truck run. it will be exciting for everyone here. Good luck and Merry CHRISTmas

Thanks for saying so! I'm very excited about this also, and will post insanely detailed reports of its characteristics and performance. I'm planning on mounting my video camera in the cab like Ryan (1971Ford) did to get some quality recordings of skylarking in this thing! And Merry Christmas to you too!

Today I received an estimate from Tom Lucas! Here it is. You can click on this image to see a larger resolution edition.



I haven't completely looked through it myself! But I figured I'd post it here right away for your fine, detailed evaluation.

The only thing that really stands out to me is the "Crankshaft Core" line. I'll have to ask Tom about this on Monday. Last I heard, the existing crankshaft was in usable condition, but this may have been re-evaluated since then. And if so, I'm naturally curious about using a 428 crankshaft instead of another 390! Maybe that's already his plan, but I'll check with him.

Thank you all for the fantastic guidance!
Robroy

[70_F100]

Robroy, that's certainly a detailed quote.

The only thing that really stands out to me is the "Crankshaft Core" line. I'll have to ask Tom about this on Monday. Last I heard, the existing crankshaft was in usable condition, but this may have been re-evaluated since then. And if so, I'm naturally curious about using a 428 crankshaft instead of another 390! Maybe that's already his plan, but I'll check with him.

If you'll notice, on the left side of the estimate, Tom states, "Crankshaft bent at snout", so that's where the "Crankshaft Core" comes in, as he'll have to replace yours.

I also noticed that he is planning to replace the oil pan.

With that in mind, that's two additional items that you were contemplating crediting to P-U's (man, I love that!! ) original build as reusable.

I guess it's probably wise to get the engine in the truck and running before approaching them about a refund, as there may be other items that come up.

[robroy]

Hey 70_F100, thanks for replying!

Robroy, that's certainly a detailed quote.

Excellent! Yeah it looks pretty good to me.

If you'll notice, on the left side of the estimate, Tom states, "Crankshaft bent at snout", so that's where the "Crankshaft Core" comes in, as he'll have to replace yours.

Ah! Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be sure to ask him about a 428 crankshaft on Monday then!

I also noticed that he is planning to replace the oil pan.

Yes! We had a talk about this. According to Tom, when the high volume oil pump is used, the pump actually has the ability to suck a stock oil pan dry. At least I heard that that's true for four quart oil pans. The Milodon 30740's a five quart pan, so I'll have to ask him about this again.

So the only way to guard against that was to either use a stock oil pump (not an attractive option, since I already bought a brand new high volume pump), or put on a different pan.

After speaking with Tom I looked back through some old threads to re-trace my reason for going with the Milodon 30740. And I realized that almost immediately after choosing it, I discovered the Canton "T" pans that included 4x2 FE Bumpsides in their application list. But by then it was too late! Or more accurately, I didn't see a strong enough reason to go with the Canton pan over the Milodon 30740.

So by going with the Canton "T" pan, I'll certainly avoid the potential problem all together. If I remember correctly the pan Tom picked out is a 7 quart pan that looks similar to this:



Since there's nothing wrong with my Milodon 30740 (with its custom drain plug), I'll probably wind up selling it (after confirming that the new Canton pan works without issues).

With that in mind, that's two additional items that you were contemplating crediting to P-U's (man, I love that!! ) original build as reusable.

True!

I guess it's probably wise to get the engine in the truck and running before approaching them about a refund, as there may be other items that come up.

That's probably a smart idea! Yet I need to balance a measure of prudence with my urge to "get it over with." I'm sure you can understand!

70_F100, thanks again for your excellent reply!
Robroy

[fomocoguy]

So Robroy, did you talk to Tom about the 428 crank? They generally run a few hundred more than a 390 crank, but I think it's a worthy investment for 22 more cubic inches. That will be one torque monster of an engine regardless, but to have a 428 would be really cool!

[robroy]

Hello FoMoCoGuy, thanks for writing!

So Robroy, did you talk to Tom about the 428 crank? They generally run a few hundred more than a 390 crank, but I think it's a worthy investment for 22 more cubic inches. That will be one torque monster of an engine regardless, but to have a 428 would be really cool!

Agreed! Just today I got a voice mail and e-mail from Tom, and have some new updates! Here they are:

• The old crankshaft was indeed bent on one of its ends. The machinist discovered that when he went to turn it! Because of the bent portion, there would be no way to properly balance the crankshaft after turning it. And since it definitely needed to be turned, it was declared a paper weight. And at 60 pounds, it's a good one.
• Because the custom pistons were already ordered from Diamond, we'll have to stick with a 390 crankshaft. There's no way to undo the order with Diamond at this point, and I understand that the 428 crankshaft's throw would require different pistons.
• Tom will add an ARP accessory bolt kit to the engine design for an additional $130. That's for the stainless steel ARP bolts (which he recommends, if I'm going with ARP accessory bolts at all).
• The estimate I received did not include the cost of painting the engine. He'll price that out in the coming days and revise the estimate.
• Tom is still trying to get explicit confirmation from Canton that their "T" pan will truly fit my truck. Much to his surprise, so far they've been unwilling to make that promise over the phone, despite their web site making the claim.
• My exact camshaft specs are (I'm quoting from Tom's e-mail): .320 lobe lift for .563 gross lift on a 110 degree lobe sep. 212 degree .050 intake 228 degree .050 exhaust.

I'm not really let down about the 428 crankshaft. I completely understand the how the situation developed, and am so tremendously grateful for Tom's excellent design, implementation, and customer service skills that I'll happily forget the 428 crankshaft idea!

Does anybody care to comment on the camshaft selection, now that its specifics have been spelled out to me? Or perhaps the additional information provokes no new comments?

Thanks very much for the superb guidance! The new engine is really coming along.
Robroy